A guy on our field here is helping us arrange for ethanol free mogas. He apparently has been told that he can be provided with 92 or 93 octane ethanol-free mogas, but that it will have some type of ethanol blending agent added to it. He called this a "catalyst", although I think this is probably a misnomer- my understanding is that a catalyst is something which facilitates a chemical reaction, which the blending of ethanol into gasoline is not.

He has been told that there are two types of "catalysts" which can be added, one of which is harmful to older (aircraft) engines, and the other of which is not. Does this make any sense?

Also, my understanding is that ethanol will be used in the future to replace MTBE and other additives as octane increasers. How is it possible today to get ethanol free mogas at 92 or 93 octane which is intended to be blended with ethanol, but does not yet contain any?

I'd appreciate any education you can provide!

-Bill

RDU, I never heard of any blending catalyst before. The secret to mixing ethanol and gasoline is to have 200 proof, meaning no water. I will post your question over on the E85 forum where one guy is in charge of service stations with blender pumps mixing ethanol direct from an ethanol plant and gasoline at 10,20 and 85% and see what he says.

Fuel is delivered from refinery to disturber without anything added.All Fuel comes thru the same pipeline from Refinery to distributor .Arco-Shell-Chevron-economy brand all come thur same pipeline All fuel is "raw" without any additives -i.e. "alcohol > ethanol > Techonial (from Chevron ) " If you live in a area that has farmers supply facility. Go there with a tank on a trailer or pickup tank and fill up on non road fuel .You'll have to pay the tax but send in for the rebates. Construction company's get the same stuff it' usually has a red tint . When the gas station wants a tanker full of fuel they say "were arco at 5th and main and we need xxxx gallons " . I think every state but 2-3 have Gas with alcohol added -most is 10-15 % mix. I burn a mix of autofuel /100LL in 182 . I try to get ethanol free fuel but sometimes have to settle for with yucky stuff . Mix ratios varry from 1/3 to 1/2 ratios. When I go to a 100LL faculty (HII-SJN) with really cheep fuel I'll fill up .We have a tank of Non-ethanol fuel at the ranch that we fill up at, $2.00 bucks a gallon + tax of .32 cents -White Hills,AZ.

No word yet from my E85 buddy. Speaking of pipelines, there is one running through my pasture that has about 80 feet exposed do to erosion from flooding. The guy in charge of my area called last week to discuss what to do and while talking to him I asked about the gas and diesel going through to the tank farm about 30 miles away. He indicated that 87 octane E0 straight gasoline is the only gasoline being pumped and to get the 91 octane E0, that just a few stations sell around here, additives are mixed at the terminal. Not sure if he knows what he is talking about but you'd think he would know what is being pumped. Oh, they sure don't seem to be very excited about fixing the 80 feet of exposed pipe.

RDU, Here is the response from the WI blender pump guy. He used to work in the petroleum business before getting into ethanol.

Cessna- never heard of such a thing as an blending agent. It is possible the two additive choices he may be referring to are nothing more than terminal or branded detergent additive packs (ie: Shell nitrogen enriched vs Bp's stuff vs Chev techtron). This of course does not make sense with the older vs newer engine stated issue.
Now however- if this jobber was going to put in an aftermarket TEL, MMT, or lead substitute then it might affect newer engines negatively. The whole thing looks upside down to me.

Thanks for all the replies. Yes, I was skeptical too. I know I can buy ethanol free 87 octane all day long from this local distributor, but I don't understand why someone would have 92 or 93 octane that was intended to be blended with ethanol without the ethanol actually in it. The local airport fella also told me that we would have to pay for and receive the ethanol which was supposed to have been blended into the gas we're buying. I think I'll make some phone calls next week.

I've also been told that there is pending legislation in our state (NC) which will make it MANDATORY for all retailers to include 10% ethanol in all their fuel. This is the kind of stupidity that infuriates me...

-Bill

Yes, if you had 93 octane E0 and added ethanol to make a 10% blend you'd have 95.5 octane. It's too bad that politics screws a lot of stuff up. Back in 2003 when I was trying to get the E85 organization(NEVC) to push for blender pumps, they weren't interested. If blenders could have been installed everybody could have been happy. In the picture taken just west of Oshkosh in 2005 you see the prices of E10,E20, and E85 from an illegal at the time blender pump. E0 could have been dispensed also but this station is owned by an ethanol plant so had no interest in selling E0. By the way the E0 would probably be 10 cents more than the E10 in the picture. If the auto mfg's would make all cars flex which in reality is just computer programming( lots of non-flex and flex fuel cars actually use the same fuel pumps etc.) the ethanol would sell because of the price.

I called our local guy here at Pacific Pride and he told me all fuel from June 1st thru September 1st was ethanol free in the phoenix area at all stations for what its worth.

Billy

180Marty wrote: If the auto mfg's would make all cars flex which in reality is just computer programming( lots of non-flex and flex fuel cars actually use the same fuel pumps etc.) the ethanol would sell because of the price.

Your tax dollar at work. BOHICA

Tim