I know that I need a license and so does my airplane. My question is to which type, I started the application on the FCC's website, and the bill for the license for the airplane is $165.00!! Does this sound right, or am I looking at the wrong one? Any help would really be appreciated.

bushpilot490

Also does anyone know how long it takes to get once you apply?

Bought that license last year. Went through Scobey which is in eastern Montana. Entered at Northway. At White horse needed the customs tag number for filling our entry into the US. The only thing I was asked for was that customs sticker number. A friend we met up with at Ft. Nelson didn't have that sticker. He boot legged my sticker number.... All was well at Northway. My eyes were dotted and tees were crossed. No worries....cept a customs officer who might be having a bad day and decide to share it.
Mark M.
Platinum, Ak

If you belong to AOPA they have a thorough and uncomplicated discussion of the radio station license requirement on their web site.

Your plane needs a radio license? I've never paid for one for any of the planes I've owned in Canada. Just have the one on my license.

Just talked to AOPA, their guy said that while it is a requirement for border crossing, they almost never ask for the radio station licenses. He said that in three years, they have only had one report of a guy being turned back at the border.

Does anyone have any firsthand experience with this that they would like to offer? I hate to spend the money ($165 for the aircraft and $65 for me), if I don't need to.

I've never heard of anyone being asked. I've been in and out of Canada via the highway, I've cleared CA customs in Whitehorse, Dawson, and Old Crow, several times each, and never been asked about radio licenses.

Same goes for insurance, required in Canada, but I've never heard of anyone being asked. Have an accident in Canada, injure someone, they may ask then.....

Piss someone off in CA Customs, all bets are off, but that's usually a pretty easy herd to get along with. More often than not, I've been cleared by telephone, and never actually saw a Customs official.

MTV

I've been flying back and forth across that border for over 40 years, and have NEVER been asked. (I have both licenses). But that doesn't mean they won't on my next crossing, or demand it if I am involved in some sort of mishap.

Is it really worth the expense of being turned around, or a paperwork nightmare for a measly $230?

Gump

Go here to file on line: http://transition.fcc.gov/Forms/Form605/605.html

I got this off the FCC fee list:

Restricted Radio license ( what you need)
New (Lifetime Permit & Limited Use) (Per Permit)
· FCC 605
· FCC 159
· Payment/Fee Type Code: PARR - $65.00 Fee

These licenses are for a lifetime. If I paid $65 when I got mine ( probably that much in 2014 dollars) it would cost me about $1.50 per year by now.

Ain't worth the pain in the rear if a Transport Canada person starts asking questions. I seldom see a customs agent when going into Canada on a CanPass.

Thanks for the input guys, I bit the bullet submitted the applications.

Remember to be squeaky clean, you need both a restricted radio operators permit ( for you) and an Aircraft Radio Station License ( for the plane).

MTV

mtv wrote:Remember to be squeaky clean, you need both a restricted radio operators permit ( for you) and an Aircraft Radio Station License ( for the plane).

MTV

Ya roger that! I applied for both, RR was $65 and is good for life, AC was $165 and expires in 10 years.

What a racket.

Hey, as they say: Ya can't have too many certificates or be too good looking.

Back when I learned to fly, a restricted radiotelephone operators certificate was required. I forget when that was dropped.....

Mines around here somewhere.

MTV

Strange topic, I was completely unaware of a radio license requirement for either pilot or airplane. Canada Customs could give a rat's about radio license, and unlike their US counterpart I've never seen them ask for any pilot or aircraft documentation - their interest is more into booze, drugs, firearms, and cash.

Transport Canada has nothing to do with either license. Pilot radio licenses are administered by Industry Canada, and nobody cares, you will never be asked for one on a ramp check because a TC inspector has no authority in the matter. The aircraft radio license was a NavCanada deal based on gross weight to pay for NAV and comm services. Plenty of homebuilts using a handheld or even panel mount have never had a radio license.

Sounds like there is some experience on being checked for these on this forum. Can anyone tell me exactly who asked to see either radio license and under what authority?

Karmutzen,

The requirement for these certificates is an ICAO requirement. Both the US and Canada are signatory to this set of policies. The US has specifically and publicly stated they won't enforce certain aspects of ICAO rules ( and there are a few more than these crest). Canada on the other hand, has adopted ICAO rules in this.

So, the only time a US pilot will see this requirement is crossing an international border.

But, as you very accurately state, enforcement is a totally different issue, and as I stated earlier, I've never heard of any issue with this in Canada.

If AOPA's assertion that they have a report from one pilot that he was turned back at the border because of this! I would bet a substantial sum (in Camadian dollars, of course ) that there was something else much uglier going on in that case.

Can't hurt to have these, but I'd be surprised if most CA Customs types even know of the requirement.

MTV

Karmutzen wrote:Strange topic, I was completely unaware of a radio license requirement for either pilot or airplane. Canada Customs could give a rat's about radio license, and unlike their US counterpart I've never seen them ask for any pilot or aircraft documentation - their interest is more into booze, drugs, firearms, and cash.

Transport Canada has nothing to do with either license. Pilot radio licenses are administered by Industry Canada, and nobody cares, you will never be asked for one on a ramp check because a TC inspector has no authority in the matter. The aircraft radio license was a NavCanada deal based on gross weight to pay for NAV and comm services. Plenty of homebuilts using a handheld or even panel mount have never had a radio license.

Sounds like there is some experience on being checked for these on this forum. Can anyone tell me exactly who asked to see either radio license and under what authority?

I'm with you on this Karmutzen. I knew about the radio license for the pilot, I had to write my 10 question test when I got my PPL, but I've never paid for a radio license for the plane as far as I know. Maybe it is covered in our yearly NavCan dues??
David

The requirement for a Canadian Aircraft to have a Radio Station License, under the old Air Navigation Orders, was repealed when the the ANOs were replaced by the Canadian Aviation Regulations...although it took a few years of using the new regulations to realize that ICAO and Industry Canada don't require the Station License for aircraft being operated domestically in Canada. Basically the requirement for a Station License was written into the aviation regulations because the aviation regulators mistakenly thought that Industry Canada regulations required it. That has now been sorted out.

Industry Canada only requires the radio operator to have a license...not the aircraft. So...after the confusion of who-required-what was sorted out, the CARs were amended to reflect the fact that a Radio Station License is not required for domestic operations.

Now...as mentioned above. Radio Station Licenses are an ICAO requirement so Transport Canada is recommending that aircraft owners who cross international boundaries have a radio station license. Aircraft operating in foreign airspace are required to comply with the laws of that state. So, if that State says you need a Radio Station License issued by your home country-you need a Radio Station License issued by your home country. Currently Canada does not require a Station License. Industry Canada will issue a Station License if requested (I bet there's a fee).

Radio Station and/or Radio Operator License fees no longer have anything to do with Nav Canada. They bill based on aircraft weight taken from the Civil Aircraft Registry.

There is some truth to the statement that a Transport Canada Inspector can't check for a radio operators license or a station License but...the Aeronautics Act gives legal weight to the ICAO Convention so an Inspector could conceivably go down that route. Not that they would...it's a waste of time. Inspectors who deal with "National Operations" will look for Station Licenses from large Canadian Air Carriers who operate overseas....that is part of Canada's ICAO commitments to oversight and the legal weight to do so is linked to both the ICAO commitments in the Aeronautics Act and often, the Regulatory Requirement to operate in accordance with the Approved Company Operations Manual (assuming the carrying of Station Licenses is contained in the Manual).

Really...none of this affects us "little guys".

Of course none of this has anything to do with the original post. Short answer...you do not need a Radio Station License in Canada but you do need a Restricted Radio Operator License or equivalent issued by your home Country because of whatever Act the Industry Canada Folks operate under. Canadian Customs Officers do have the Authority to check for compliance to all the Laws of Canada when inspecting visitors. That said...it's very, very, unlikely that they would look at, or know anything about radio licenses. Like they care...you think they are checking the truckers for radio licenses? Not likely...

Now that I have thoroughly confused the issue I shall retire to the reading room where I will take my Brandy and light a Cigar....

Hey northernguy, for a backcountry pilot you're pretty well versed. I dug in and found a couple of Industry Canada references that confirm: http://www.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/smt-gst.nsf/eng/h_sf01775.html and http://www.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/smt-gst.nsf/eng/sf01746.html.

Speaking of ICAO, they craft standards, not regulations. Then it is up to each country to either write regulations in compliance with the ICAO standards, or to file differences with ICAO. The FAA has by far the most differences. Considering that most countries in the world that sit on ICAO boards have no non-airline aviation at all, let alone GA, this is not surprising.

The bilateral thing is interesting, you'd have to scrutinize the matching FAA side to see what exemptions cross over. Some curious retired guy with time on his hands can let us know...
Wouldn't the same apply to flying to Mexico or Central America, or the Caribbean?

You're right about ICAO Standards vs Regulations. At least member states can still make their own rules. It would be scary if the UN made regulations! Law without representation...yikes! Oh...and Canada isn't too far behind the US in the number of differences filed with ICAO...and I'm glad of it !

And ya...lots of countries don't have general aviation. Poor buggers...Look at EASA's attempts to restrict it, and you have an idea of what "globalization" can do to aviation!

I would guess that the ICAO standard to have radio licenses may stem from the old days when there was a guy on the crew known as a "Radio Operator" ...??? Heaven forbid that just anybody gets a hold of that Morse Key and starts clacking out coded profanity ! Oh the horror!

Maybe radio licensing thing is just a standard that no one really pays attention to because, really? Who cares? So the standard just never got dropped or updated. Thats my guess anyway.

Karmutzen wrote:Hey northernguy, for a backcountry pilot you're pretty well versed.

Well that's because he's a TC Inspector!
(sorry to blow your cover John)