If you have a strip at the ranch and a few folks drop by and one roles his plane into a ball, how can you keep him from owning the ranch.

Everbody says "I would never do that" but you never know tell it happens.

Tim

qmdv wrote:If you have a strip at the ranch and a few folks drop by and one roles his plane into a ball, how can you keep him from owning the ranch.

Get a backhoe and dig a real big hole out in the field...

What airplane???? What pilot????

Gump

The best would to not allow anyone. Then again, if someone drops in unannounced, how can you prove you never allowed it?

You could have some legal folk do up a waiver thing, have your friend sign it...but I hear a good lawyer can rip those up in court too.

qmdv wrote:If you have a strip at the ranch and a few folks drop by and one roles his plane into a ball, how can you keep him from owning the ranch.

Everbody says "I would never do that" but you never know tell it happens.

Tim

What are your state laws? Here in Montana the state has laws that basically hold the landowner harmless if he allows others to use his land for recreational purposes. As long as he doesn't charge for it. So if you come onto my land here and roll your plane up into a ball it just simply isn't my problem.

This is a serious question for which it would be good to hear serious responses. I would really like to hear a good dialogue on this one. Is it best to put "X" on the approach ends of the runway? Then if someone lands and rolls it into a ball, at least there was some indication that they shouldn't have been landing there (perhaps even though you wanted your friends to visit)? There are a lot of issues here, not the least of which are local state statutes dealing with the issue.

Nizina

Your question has to do with a "strip", which kind of implies "meant for airplanes". Would it be any different if you left the land totally unimproved, and just landed in the short-cut part of the hay meadow, or on the long, straight dirt road between the alfalfa and the winter rye? Seriously??

-DP

qmdv wrote:If you have a strip at the ranch and a few folks drop by and one roles his plane into a ball, how can you keep him from owning the ranch.

Everbody says "I would never do that" but you never know tell it happens.

Tim

Hey Tim, i would start with your insurance company and see what they say. I would think they would know all the details.

Being involved in the racing scene, it seems like every track we go to these days the track owners are getting tighter on there policies about riding scooters, bicycles, golf carts, and drinking on there properties. Kind of the same issue you have brought up. Just a thought.

Pat

I think the word "permision" may have something to do with landing on a private strip. Also check your insurance policy to see what it says about a recognized airstrip on a chart vs a cow pasture. In the past I have had policies that will or won't insure you on a cow pasture...considered an off airport landing.
As for liabilty for the land owner..wouldn't make any bets but he is not PIC.
HC

Nizina,

One thing to consider with putting yellow X's on each end of the strip, is that then if YOU land there, you are technically in violation of the FAR, right?

So, if anything bad were to happen to YOU, the Friendly Aviation Administration might be asking you why you were landing on a closed airport, even though you were the one closed it.

I've thought about this issue some, and it seems like a real potential gotcha at least in some states. Sounds like Montana's the place to have a private strip, though.

Perhaps the best approach is simply not to INVITE anyone. If they drop in uninvited, what can you do about that???

Hand em a beer?

MTV

I have faith but not neccessarily in a legal system.

If you end up in court, right or wrong doesn't matter as much as who has the highest priced (best) lawyer and do you have a jury or judge. If you have a jury, is at least one a pilot or did they mostly show up for beer money.

Or your insurance company will pay them just to make it all go away, right or wrong.

Montana is not immune to the legal system either, not my personnal experience, but I know Montana is not immune. However, Montana has a lot of wide open spaces to operate backhoes.

If you tell someone they cannot land on your land, they do it anyway wrecking their plane, you could still lose in court. That's just the way our society is wired right now.

I have friends that land here and do touch and gos sometimes. I don't want to live my life looking over my shoulder all the time on defense. I was put here to work and have fun, thats what life is about.

Bill

Here in Siskiyou county you need to get a use permit to put in a private airport. What I have is a pasture that is kept short. It will not be on the the chart. Probably ungoogleable. You probably need a use permit to put in a moto cross track but you can still ride your bike on your ranch. My logic exactly.

The spot is about 90 ft wide and 1100 ft long. Not all usable cus on the west side is a barb wire fence and on the east side is a check. A check is a mound of dirt running north and south to keep flood irrigation in a designed area. Hard to see the check from the air cus it is covered with grass. On the north and south end is an electric fence made of 1" or larger tape as depicted. The shock tape.
http://www.rammfence.com/fence/products.php?c=42&p=89

The tape will be such that if you hit it with the gear, then it will break away and not cause any real problem.

I will only mow a 35 foot strip a bit on the east of center cus the check is more forgiving than the fence. A 182 wing will clear the fence.

On the south end 700 ft away (approach end cus landing to the north is uphill), there is a pretty busy county road going east to west with a power line. A 5 degree approach angle gives you about 50ft clearance from the power line. If calculations are correct then it should be pretty easy with the 182.

Have some ruts to farm out at each end and it will be tricked out in about three weeks. At that time I will post pictures with lat an long. No one is invited.

Come to think of it, it is not a landing strip but a drag strip for remote controle mini dune buggies.

Tim

Tim,

Most important, enjoy it and have fun

I don't really have an air strip either. Just grass in the middle of a field for walking and training the dog. No sectional or map of any kind needed. Oh yea, we have an airplane in the backyard, but it can take off and land anywhere in the field.

Bill

I have a friend in Ohio that has an annual fly in. What does he do I wonder?

Oh yes, dog training is important.

Tim

I carry an umbrella policy on all the land that I rent and own. This is supposed to cover me from a hunter,without permission, getting hurt and suing me. Would it cover airplanes? It doesn't cost very much for this kind of policy--- I think a couple of hundred $$$$ for 600 acres.

180Marty wrote:I carry an umbrella policy on all the land that I rent and own. This is supposed to cover me from a hunter,without permission, getting hurt and suing me. Would it cover airplanes? It doesn't cost very much for this kind of policy--- I think a couple of hundred $$$$ for 600 acres.

Great Idea, Will call my agent this week.

Tim

Tim, it sounds like your pasture is nice. I wish I had a little more land I do the same.

We had a fellow pilot not far from me build a strip. It is beautiful, built as a strip. Only problem, didn't get big brothers approval. Neighbors pitched a bitch. Big brother said no go. Suck

Have fun...Rob

MTV

Good point about using the "X" and he FAA, although I would want to research the implications of using this designation on my own airstrip a bit more.

As you know, in Alaska, airstrips are not just a corner of someones cow pasture. Fly over the state and you will see a number of cabins out in the middle of nowhere with an adjacent air strip. Airstrips are ubiquitous throughout the state. The airstrip is not an afterthought but often an integral element of back country living.

You are right, that maybe it is just best not to invite people to use your strip, but there is no way to stop a total stranger from just dropping in.

Furthermore, most remote cabins and adjoining property are not eligible for insurance, nor can you get an umbrella policy from your "in-town" dwelling to cover your back country dwelling.

Of course there are upsides to pilots just dropping in. A guy from the lower-48 dropped into our airstrip at the Nizina last summer. We put him and his wife up for the night, and before they left the next day, I had bought his Husky for a great price.

Nevertheless, we do worry about liability of both invited and uninvited guests just dropping in.

But we are generally good for a beer. Hmm -- maybe that's the problem.

Nizina

mtv wrote:Perhaps the best approach is simply not to INVITE anyone. If they drop in uninvited, what can you do about that???

Hand em a beer?

How many urban legend horror stories have been floating around for years about the burglar who gets stuck or injured in someone's house while being there illegally to ransack the place? Who then sues, and wins, causing financial ruin for the innocent victim homeowner. Tons of them, and unfortunately, quite a few of them are true.

In this litigious society where welfare mentality is the current mindset of the masses, and "Have you been injured in an accident?" TV ads aren't considered sleaze or wrong anymore, you the property owner are screwed.

Good insurance might protect your assets in the long run, but conversely, just having good insurance makes you a potential deep pockets defendant and an inviting target. You might "win" but there will be years of hell while being drug through the cash factory for lawyers... Oops, I mean the legal system.

Put in a nice swimming pool in your back yard, and your insurance company, and the courts, will call it an "attractive nuisance" and heaven help you if some neighborhood kid defeats all your fences and safety measures, climbs in the thing and drowns. You're still going to be at fault for having the thing on your property, and tempting poor little Hadji to jump in and be a Darwin Award winner.

If'n it was me.... I'd know where the grass was mowed a bit shorter than the rest of the field and where the ruts were, and a few of my flying buddies might have carb ice now and then to help me drink beers, but other than that, the place would be invisible.

Gump

Instead of the "X" what are the implications of an "R"??? I moved up to the Portland area about 4 years ago and for the first 3 years I couldn't fly without seeing another backyard strip or two. Anything from just a track to some fairly elaborate airports. It's great to see them all, and to know how much it pisses off Homeland Insecurity.

Instead of the "X" what are the implications of an "R"???

Now I like that one. It is not bomb proof, but it may make someone think twice about dropping in. Maybe gun turrets on both ends as well.

Niznia