Backcountry Pilot • Removing flap gap seals C-182

Removing flap gap seals C-182

Have you modified your aircraft? STC? STOL Kit? Major rebuild from just a data plate?
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Fri Feb 22, 2013 5:09 am

Removing flap gap seals C-182

I want to remove the gap seals. What do I do with all the rivet holes? Leave them there? Fill them with pop rivets? I am the pilot and hold an A&P so I can do the work. Aircraft is a 58 182 with horton stol kit. Sorry for the stupid question I searched.
pilate74 offline
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Fri Feb 22, 2013 6:25 am

Re: Removing flap gap seals C-182

I'll join you on that one. Wondering the same for a 170.
55wagon offline
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Fri Feb 22, 2013 6:34 am

Re: Removing flap gap seals C-182

I would fill them with countersunk cherry-max rivets with a short stem... unless there are other "factory" button-heads in that same area.
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Fri Feb 22, 2013 7:46 am

Re: Removing flap gap seals C-182

If I do the rivet solution, I was going to use the non structural rivets where possible. I want to make it easy to drill the holes out in case someone down the line wants to add them back. I will use the cherymax for the structural holes on the bottom of the wing skin. I really do not care if the rivets are flush or not as long as I can make an airworthy fix. This is a working airplane so I will be getting all the paperwork done.
pilate74 offline
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Fri Feb 22, 2013 8:37 am

Re: Removing flap gap seals C-182

There is a way of doing this without having to remove all of the rivets on the aft end. You will then only have to remove the rivets and the brackets that sit in the flap bay, i.e. a half dozen rivets. Give me a call and I can give you the details. Will Stene, eight hundred, five nine seven, 1911.
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Fri Feb 22, 2013 8:52 am

Re: Removing flap gap seals C-182

I know that several people have commented from time to time that having flap gap seals somehow interferes with their slow speed handling. However, I had flap gap seals installed on my P172D, which increased my cruise speed about 6 knots, and quite frankly, I could not see any noticeable adverse effect on slow speed handling. I had flown my bird for a couple of years and maybe 150 hours before adding them, so I had a good idea of what it would do and not do stock, and except for the increased cruise speed, I just can't detect any other differences.

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Fri Feb 22, 2013 9:36 am

Re: Removing flap gap seals C-182

Test the airplane. Test it now with the gap seals, and then test it again immediately after you remove them. I'm fairly sure a lot of people on this forum will be interested to see a direct, fair comparison on the same airplane by the same pilot, etc. The flap gap seal debate has been going on for many years.

Make a determination of what you gained/lost by removing them, on your airplane, with your engine, with nothing else changed, and with nobody's opinion bouncing around in your head. Again, I think it's safe to say that this information would be of great interest here.

If you decide to put them back on after that test, then you will be able to do so. If you decide to leave them off, then put AN solid rivets into the holes with a drop of RTV silicone sealer (and don't buck the rivets), so a future owner can re-install the gap seals without a lot of effort.
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Fri Feb 22, 2013 9:55 am

Re: Removing flap gap seals C-182

EZFlap wrote:Test the airplane. Test it now with the gap seals, and then test it again immediately after you remove them. I'm fairly sure a lot of people on this forum will be interested to see a direct, fair comparison on the same airplane by the same pilot, etc. The flap gap seal debate has been going on for many years.

Make a determination of what you gained/lost by removing them, on your airplane, with your engine, with nothing else changed, and with nobody's opinion bouncing around in your head. Again, I think it's safe to say that this information would be of great interest here.


+1
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Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:10 am

Re: Removing flap gap seals C-182

EZFlap wrote: If you decide to leave them off, then put AN solid rivets into the holes with a drop of RTV silicone sealer (and don't buck the rivets), so a future owner can re-install the gap seals without a lot of effort.


Image
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Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:19 am

Re: Removing flap gap seals C-182

Thanks for all the posts. I have got over 120 take offs and landings this year. The reason for removing the gap seals is that some of the rivets are getting loose. This plane spends most of its time at 65mph and never gets farther than gliding distance from the airport. I would rather just take them off. I have a really good feel for this 182 and I will post some results. I will try to get an early morning flight with and without. The ground turbulence is really bad out here.
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Sat Feb 23, 2013 1:50 am

Re: Removing flap gap seals C-182

SixTwoLeemer wrote:
Image



You can't post that in here... this is the War Room !
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Sat Feb 23, 2013 8:10 am

Re: Removing flap gap seals C-182

timbofoo wrote:
EZFlap wrote:Test the airplane. Test it now with the gap seals, and then test it again immediately after you remove them. I'm fairly sure a lot of people on this forum will be interested to see a direct, fair comparison on the same airplane by the same pilot, etc. The flap gap seal debate has been going on for many years.

Make a determination of what you gained/lost by removing them, on your airplane, with your engine, with nothing else changed, and with nobody's opinion bouncing around in your head. Again, I think it's safe to say that this information would be of great interest here.


+1

+2!

Being that it sounds like we have almost identical planes and do almost the same type of flying with flap gap seals, I'd be very interested in the results.
58Skylane offline
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Mon Feb 25, 2013 3:00 am

Re: Removing flap gap seals C-182

It will be very interesting to see the difference you experience. I removed the flap gap seals on my 172 and immediately lost 150 ftp climb , 6mph cruise and some landing precision.
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Fri Mar 01, 2013 4:41 pm

Re: Removing flap gap seals C-182

Sorry for no updates, flap gap removal on the 182. Our backup plane will be ready soon. I have to wait until I have another plane to fly. I will be doing some performance test with someone in the right seat to take notes. Cruise speed, stall speed, ect.. I will then pull the seals and do the same thing. The c150 with horton stol and no seals lands much better than the 182 with seals. It is also more fun to fly.
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Fri Mar 01, 2013 5:56 pm

Re: Removing flap gap seals C-182

pilate74 wrote:Sorry for no updates, flap gap removal on the 182. Our backup plane will be ready soon. I have to wait until I have another plane to fly. I will be doing some performance test with someone in the right seat to take notes. Cruise speed, stall speed, ect.. I will then pull the seals and do the same thing. The c150 with horton stol and no seals lands much better than the 182 with seals. It is also more fun to fly.


Looking forward to results......... 8-[
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Fri Mar 01, 2013 6:18 pm

Re: Removing flap gap seals C-182

pilate74 wrote:

"The c150 with horton stol and no seals lands much better than the 182 with seals. It is also more fun to fly."



I bet the 180hp on that C150 helps with the fun factor quite a bit :lol:
I'm assuming that this is the rig I think it is.......I wonder if landing on that rough grama grass strip has somethin to do with the rivets fallin out :shock: my teeth rattle a bit even with the bushwheels! Don't misunderstand me though, I love the way the turf strip is and really appreciate those who keep it mowed!!!
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Sat Mar 02, 2013 9:38 pm

Re: Removing flap gap seals C-182

We need 27 to stay open. I like the added options. Skalywag probably knows about our other runway as well.
pilate74 offline
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Sun Mar 03, 2013 9:25 am

Re: Removing flap gap seals C-182

175 magnum wrote:....I removed the flap gap seals on my 172 and immediately lost .... some landing precision.


Elaborate please?
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Fri Mar 29, 2013 5:33 pm

Re: Removing flap gap seals C-182

Almost done with the 182. I have removed one side and working on the other. Cherrymax rivets are hard to remove! I could not test fly before removal due to other issues with the aircraft but I do have 120 landings in it this year. I will post results asap.
pilate74 offline
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Fri Mar 29, 2013 7:50 pm

Re: Removing flap gap seals C-182

I find drilling out Cherrymax style rivets is a gamble for me personally in awkward places. I use a dremel tool with a heavy cut off wheel to take off the top 3/4 of the head, which gets rid of that pesky steel ring that is hard to drill through. Then I tap out the mandrel with a thin punch, which is easy since the elevated temp from the cutoff wheel loosens it, and the aluminum shank with a larger punch. It seems to go a lot faster for me than sweating to stay centered with a drill in a sensitive area, with less banging too. You can get a whole bunch of little cut off wheels for 10 bucks at Ace Hardware.
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