TrevDog, C180Pilot, tucsonwis, Rob, Hafast. I know you guys fly out of Arizona. Anyone can offer advise, I will read them all. Next month I will be flying into Scottsdale from Bermuda Dunes, Ca. In your opinion what is the easiest way if I want to fly the magenta line? VFR flight following, IFR flight plan?

I know I can come in from the north and not have to deal with Luke AFB, SUA, or Deer Valley.

What's your recommendations?



Cheers...Rob

My vote is FF,

Since the change from moa to alert area is still relatively new, many people just blast right on through. Consequently, Luke is exceedingly appreciative of GA guys that call them up, at least that's been my experience. They may forget to hand you off tho which has also been my experience, SDL is less than appreciative of late hand offs...

It's pretty easy airspace, and not a lot of tricky spots.

Take care, Rob

Rob, going direct is no big deal... you will do alot of freq. changing though.
One option... more fun and some low level desert exploring, would be to route south of South Mountain. The Estrella mountain range is down there and gliders get some good lift. You stay low and do a slow left hand loop after passing the mountain.... swing outside of Mesa Falcon Field (where you get a good view of the Superstition Mountains) and then into the east side of Scottsdale. It really only adds a few miles and is kinda fun. Either way though... if you get into any kind of jam while in AZ.... give me a ring for a bailout. PM for cell phone number if you wish.
Nick

flightlogic wrote:Rob, going direct is no big deal... you will do alot of freq. changing though.
One option... more fun and some low level desert exploring, would be to route south of South Mountain. The Estrella mountain range is down there and gliders get some good lift. You stay low and do a slow left hand loop after passing the mountain.... swing outside of Mesa Falcon Field (where you get a good view of the Superstition Mountains) and then into the east side of Scottsdale. It really only adds a few miles and is kinda fun. Either way though... if you get into any kind of jam while in AZ.... give me a ring for a bailout. PM for cell phone number if you wish.
Nick

Going this route means it's better to follow the salton sea down and hit the dunes

Thank you Rob and Nick. Good ideas and good points both. Looks like Deer Valley has a pretty cool restaurant and the best gas prices. Any thoughts on gas and $100 burgers.

I'll be at Barrett Jackson if you guys happen to go there. January 15-22 I don't know what days I'll be there yet. I should have time to meet any BCP guys who want to meet for lunch.

I love Glamis and that pic is great!

Cheers...Rob

Hey Rob..................

You might want to consider coming in from the north (Prescott PRC/Sedona SEZ area). I think you could miss some of the hassle and enjoy the beauty of the AZ countryside. By the way, fuel is generally very expensive at SDL ($6-$7/gal).

Have a great flight,

Jim

tucsonwis wrote:Hey Rob..................

You might want to consider coming in from the north (Prescott PRC/Sedona SEZ area). I think you could miss some of the hassle and enjoy the beauty of the AZ countryside. By the way, fuel is generally very expensive at SDL ($6-$7/gal).

Have a great flight,

Jim

Hi Jim: been getting any flying in?

Thank you Rob, Jim and Nick. Good ideas and good points both. Looks like Deer Valley has a pretty cool restaurant and the best gas prices. Any thoughts on gas and $100 burgers.

Good day

Deer Valley is convenient but beware of lot's of training aircraft. Scottsdale may be very expensive to park and fuel. Falcon Field is not that far and is an easy in and out.

Jim is right about Scottsdale gas prices. They cater to the biz jets as a satellite field to PHX Sky Harbor. Surprisingly, one of the lower rates for fuel is Sedona. And of course, in some circles, it has been voted the most scenic airport in America. The carrier landing on top of the mesa is fun, but no big deal. A bit of a rotor off the end of runway 21 on windy days. Everyone lands uphill on 3 and leaves the other way. The new fancy restaurant has just opened up on the field and you can park the Maule right in front of their picture windows. Then somebody can use your camera to snap you and the plane with the red rocks in the background! If you don't swing that far north, Deer Valley has self serve on the north side... then a big hassle to cross both runways to get to the restaurant on the south side. And be prepared to understand Chinese on the radio. The controllers understand stuff you will never get deciphered! Somehow they get it all worked out. From there, you duck below Class B over to SDL and it just takes minutes.

Rob, I go over to that area and back from Falcon Field somewhat often and I always go south of Goodyear, over Firebird Lake, and through Chandler's airspace to get to Falcon. I never talk to Approach. Phoenix Approach has a decidely unfriendly attitude towards small GA. I have never figured out why, just their culture I guess. Stay below 3000' and you'll miss all of the Class B airspace but keep track of where you are since there is a section or two real close by that go below 3000. A side benefit is that Chandler usually has some of the cheapest gas around the valley if you wanted to stop in there to gas up. If you are renting a car, you might think about just stopping at Falcon. Probably a little less expensive than Scottsdale in general and they have cars there. Popular breakfast joints are Sedona and Payson. Both have good airport food plus great views. You might want to hit Red Creek on your way to breakfast for a little wilderness.

Wayne

c180pilot wrote:Rob, I go over to that area and back from Falcon Field somewhat often and I always go south of Goodyear, over Firebird Lake, and through Chandler's airspace to get to Falcon. I never talk to Approach. Phoenix Approach has a decidely unfriendly attitude towards small GA. I have never figured out why, just their culture I guess. Stay below 3000' and you'll miss all of the Class B airspace but keep track of where you are since there is a section or two real close by that go below 3000. A side benefit is that Chandler usually has some of the cheapest gas around the valley if you wanted to stop in there to gas up. If you are renting a car, you might think about just stopping at Falcon. Probably a little less expensive than Scottsdale in general and they have cars there. Popular breakfast joints are Sedona and Payson. Both have good airport food plus great views. You might want to hit Red Creek on your way to breakfast for a little wilderness.

Wayne

Thanks Wayne: I have never been to Payson I might have to check it out. I really like Sedona except for the old hippies, ha ha. The reason for Scottsdale is my buddy's house is 5 minutes away. That's who I am staying with. I ask these questions to get a feel for the area, having never flown in. Sometimes getting on the radar is a major pain in the ass, vector vector vector. Other times it is sweet. So you got to ask to find out. Flying around the area for the big picture is always good.

Cheers...Rob

Rob, I fly into Phoenix about twice a month. I used to go into Scottsdale or Falcon, but have realized that KPHX is the best for me. One of the 3 runways at Phoenix Sky Harbor is mostly GA: 07R/25L, has a great FBO right next to it, is centrally located, has cheaper fuel than Scottsdale and the best part is youre in the bravo and with ATC.

The Phoenix area is one of the largest pilot training hubs in the world, there is A LOT of VFR traffic down there. If you choose to duck under and around the Bravo do so knowing that it is very busy. I've had more close calls under and around that airspace than I care to remember and would much rather fly through bravo with those who are on frequency than in the see and avoid chaos below. My experience with Phoenix approach has been all good. Goes without saying, but if you sound professional youre more likely to get treated that way....now that I said that you're doomed to get a jerk for a controller.

More on Swift, an interesting story: my understanding is the owner of Swift Trucking, Jerry Moyes, thought he could do better than the resident FBO, Cutter, so he opened his own. Swift is one of the best FBO's I've been to and they treat the small GA crowd very well in my experience...right down to the covered loading/unloading area and the red carpet. Fuel is about 50 cents cheaper vs Scottsdale.

No matter how you get there, Phoenix is a great place to be in January. Have a good trip!

Thanks Eric: this is the kind of info you can't get from any book.

Cheers...Rob

Rob, Eric has been a lucky guy. Going direct into PHX is a crapshoot. America West (US Air) and Southwest rule the skies there. I have been sent to Firebird lake to hold when all the 737's are using the field at peak arrival and departure times. This has gone on for 45 minutes or more. Once, I had to land at Chandler, pay a taxi $65 to get back to the "big" airport to catch my airline flight. What he says about the FBO is true... it's just getting to their ramp is the challenge. I did once have a controller phone me though... he said he noticed my arrival at 8am three mornings in a row. He suggested 8:14 am instead. He knew all the peaks and ebbs my heart. I tried it and got right in. Anyway, your friend is near KSDL anyway...
Have fun and enjoy the heat of the valley. Only 80 miles north, we are enjoying fresh snow and lows in the mid teens at night.

OregonMaule wrote:Thank you Rob and Nick. Good ideas and good points both. Looks like Deer Valley has a pretty cool restaurant and the best gas prices. Any thoughts on gas and $100 burgers.

I'll be at Barrett Jackson if you guys happen to go there. January 15-22 I don't know what days I'll be there yet. I should have time to meet any BCP guys who want to meet for lunch.

I love Glamis and that pic is great!

Cheers...Rob

You will LOVE Barrett Jackson.... Cream of the crop in toys... I flew down there a year or so ago in a CJ jet... Had to take it to Chandler to the Citation service center. Landed and as soon as I got out of the plane a couple of cup cars were running over at the proving grounds that is next to the runway... SWEET sound for sure... Nice airport but kinda far from the auction.. I suggest SDL for what you are trying to do. Year I was there a couple of NASCAR Craftsman trucks went through the auction... Both were is good shape and had a fresh bullet under the hood... Sold for 13,000- 15,000. I almost bought one to split between the 4 of us that were hanging out that weekend.. We could have taken it to Bonneville and joined the 200MPH club for about 4 grand each...That would have been cheap thrills for sure.... In fact one day if the stars line up correctly I will do it. . Enjoy the auction...


Ben.

Does anybody have experience at Goodyear? Last year I went into Falcon -very easy when coming in from the NE but this I need to be on the other side of town.
Mike

Rob, we flew my brothers 180 down last spring for Arizona bike week. We flew into Deer valley and used Cutter aviation. Our friend was also in Scottsdale and it was only about 10 minutes from his place. Cheaper fuel and Very nice helpful people at Cutter.When we were going to leave we wanted to be in the air by daylight as we were going back to AWO that day. They had someone meet us at the gate at 5:30, walked us to the plane with a flashlight, helped load, untie and we were gone. Cutter is a great FBO, Deer valley is very easy to get in and out of in your car too.I wouldn't want the hassle of sky harbor. JMO.
On a side note we stopped at Madras on the way down and back. Very nice airport,friendly people, will stop again.

Rob
Just fly low and firewall it. You can get mogas at Alamo lake if you have your AKBush bags, or take a strand of fence down. Barrett Jackson is a great time. Check ot Red Cliffs on the Verde while you are there. Good place to camp for a night or too, if yur inta that sort of thing. Good eats at Payson and new restaurant at Sedona. Guess they already told ya about this stuff, but, I concurr
gary

Flight logic, 45 minutes is a loooong delay, I often arrive mid-morning, must be after rush hour? Good to know. The worst delay has been about 5 minutes. Appch gave me vectors toward South Mountain and had me hold at 4500 IIRC, then "6 romeo sierra can you accept a steep approach straight for the numbers without delay?" 1500 fpm descent and was taxing up to Swift 2 minutes later. I never fly into Deer Valley, but that's quite close to Scottsdale and closer to the west as well. Keep your head on a swivel, your eyes outside a 5th of Jack to ease the nerves after your 3rd near mis and you'll be fine.

I think Gary means Red Creek on the Verde...that's a great little strip just north of horse shoe resivoir about 40 N of KSDL. Definitely worth a stop. +1 on camping there. Never heard of Red Cliffs?
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=241

Eric, you are right, I can never remember the right name. Anyways, good spot, worth checking out if he is in the area, Another thing he might want to check out on the way back, would be planes of fame up at Valle.