I've been doing this backcountry thing for four years now, and am finally getting to the point where I can get into places that I can't get out. I want to shoot some of my ideas out there for comment. I hope you guys have better ideas than me. I should add that a lot of places we go aren't strips, but flat spots in the desert, washes, dirt roads etc, where the field length is not precisely known.
I read Sparky Imesons book about mt. flying, and he suggests that on short srtips if you haven't reached 70% of takeoff speed by mid field you should abort the t/o. The problem is that my Maule is airborne by the time the airspeed indicator comes to life. (40mph) I have been using the tail coming up as the reference. Thoughts?

My next question is regarding approach speed.
If I fly a minimum speed max braking landing I can stop in about 2/3 the distance it takes to get airborne again. Maybe less. From the air how can a person judge if there is enough room to get out. What I'm thinking now is that if I'm uncomfortable with the distance for landing, the strip is too short to get back out.
Winter is comming and there is dirt to be plundered, so send your thoughts fast!
Jeff

Are you getting that thing down and stopped in less than 350'?

Well in a plane that excels at slow flight like the Maule, perhaps a better rule of thumb is 70% of Vx? Vx though is usually very close to the speed i rotate at in a 172 (55 kts), so maybe it's all the same. Whatever will allow you to escape ground effect and establish a healthy climb. Hardly takes any speed to the get the tail up right? I don't know how significant that is. I have my tailwheel endorsement, but I haven't had the fun time to experiment with applying rules of thumb like this.

Brings to mind another question: Can you takeoff shorter with a 3 point takeoff? Or does the additional drag with a more positive AOA and up elevator make it work out the same? 3 point takeoff is soft field operation in a taildragger right? Get it as light as possible ASAP, and accellerate in level flight above the runway once airborn?

Z

Doug,
On pavement probably less, but who cares about pavement. on dirt strips where I have a good approach and can brake hard, it's about the same. For normal ops 500 is a better number. But I'm talking about if I really get after it. also, on unimproved srtips I can't take-off as short, due to various factors. I realize compared to big time guys that's not particulary good, but I only have single piston brakes right now, no vgs, and most importantly no Bushwheels! I used to think it was really important how short I could stop, but that doesn't seem as important now. Precise control of thouchdown point and steering I think are equally valuable. With 8.50's you really have to watch out for rocks, and other surface irregularties.
Zane, the problem with using airspeed as a T/O reference is that my plane is airborne before the airspeed indicator is even indicating. I also should clairify that the 70% thing was for a field with out obstructions. Sorry... I think I over answered.

Zane,

Most of the time we don't have soft field issues and getting the tail up quick works best followed by a drop to liftoff into ground effect.

In the M-4 on a good day I'm getting stopped in 400-500' at 1900 lbs, no wind, but consistency is eluding me because I'm not flying enough. I know I could do better but it'll take a lot of practice to get there. Takeoffs are about 500' at 1400' MSL, 95 degrees, 1900 lbs - so I'm definitely takeoff limited right now.

I still don't like landing on strips shorter than about 800-900' right now - it's a comfort thing.

Jeff,

From what I hear you've got the best Maule wing for this type of flying.

Keep in mind that at 70 mph (60 knots), you travel 100 feet per second, so drag the intended landing strip at 70 (groundspeed,not airspeed--use your GPS) and time the overflight.
Still plenty of variables with regards to skill (or lack thereof),surface condition,obstacles, wind, elevation, temperature,etc, but at least it gives you a starting point.

Eric

Doug,
I think the M-6 has the long flaps like mine, and has a longer wing. So it would be better. I was hoping to have a chat about this very subject over on the Maule site, but I kind of got side tracked with the whole bushwheel thing and thought I'd better back off a bit.
I really don't want to get into any kind of "mines shorter" thread here, for a number of reasons. I was just hoping to get input from other experienced pilots.
To expand on Doug's comments, My T/O procedure is to apply full power, push the stick to the forward stop, wait for level pitch, and simultaenously apply full flaps and rotate hard. A talented pilot would keep the stick neutral until the tail was light, and then bring the tail up. but it happens so fast for me right now I have to do it like I described.

speedbump wrote:I think the M-6 has the long flaps like mine, and has a longer wing. So it would be better...

The M-6 has the same wing span and flaps as the MX-7 but requires an aileron mod to have the same length ailerons as the MX-7. Bone stock the MX-7 wing is better. The MX-7 wing is basically the modded M-6 wing.

Actually the M-6 wing is 1" longer than the MX-7-235 wing.

Whoops! My bad. Actually the MX-7-235 has a 30'10" wing. The MX-7-180 is the one with the 32'11" wing. They did some weird things with the wing length on the MX series planes.

The M-6 wing is 32'11", but has shorter ailerons than the MX wing.

All of which has nothin' to do with the go, no go, takeoff decision!