Has anyone purchased an aircraft "sight unseen" before? What is the minimum inspection I should have done before purchasing an aircraft from out of state? If going ahead with a purchase "remotely," as it were, how would you handle the financial transactions? Thanks in advance for any info. Also- any recommendations for a ferry pilot to get a tailwheel plane from Texas to Portland, Oregon?

What make and model?

shortBuzz wrote:What make and model?

1966 Maule M-4-210C.

I sold one to a sight-unseen buyer. We used Aerospace Reports for escrow, records search, title insurance, and reregistration services. Based on that I'd use them again.
-DP

p.s.- I also went out of my way to provide very detailed descriptions of all the squawks with the plane. Did not want the guy to have any basis later for complaining about “surprises”. There were none, and he didn’t. Added a very clear as-is, where-is clause in the contract for good measure. If it seems like you’re dealing with a seller who hasn’t thought through their side of a sight-unseen transaction, that should give you pause.

If you know enough to know this is the right airplane for you at the right price, then all you really need to do is have someone verify that it is as-advertised. Sometimes you have to take a leap of faith to get what you want when it becomes available.

If it's just one of several planes that you think will work for you, I wouldn't do it.

As others have said, it's a lot easier to buy an airplane than it is to sell one...

When I sold my first airplane a guy wanted to buy it sight-unseen, and I refused to sell it that way. When he did come look at it he got cold feet and backed out. I'm SOOOO glad I refused to sell it sight-unseen and didn't have to deal with him afterwards.

I bought a plane "sight unseen" last summer and flew it from Alaska to the lower 48. I saw a lot of pictures and had a prebuy inspection performed on it prior to flying commercially to pick it up. The seller was a no bullshit gentleman, and I could tell that from our very first telephone conversation.

There are a LOT of variables, but "who is selling it?" should be a primary indicator of whether it's a good idea or not.

I bought my first airplane sight unseen from some shady character in Oregon who runs some sort of flying website. I had my dad and his IA do a prebuy/annual on it and it worked out pretty good.

I bought my 170 sight unseen from a gentleman in El Cajon. He was a 42k hour airplane pilot who lost his medical at 80 years old and 06B was his baby. He had done the interior, paint, 180 gear legs, all wiring, full ifr panel, sportsman's cuff, baggage door, right wing landing/taxi light, I think you get the idea. Oh yeah, the 180hp O-360 conversion as well.

I had my brother in law (who has his PPL) who lives in San Diego, go check and see if the plane looked nice. Awesome was his response to seeing it. We talked and a deal was made. Avemco handled all the paperwork. We would split the cost of an annual and the owner had always wanted to fly to Alaska. He got a buddy of his to fly with him up north and deliver the plane to me as part of the purchase price. It was his swan song trip and he loved every minute of it.

When I saw the plane in person plane, I was elated. It was everything advertised and more. They stayed at our house for a couple days and he showed me a few things about flying tail draggers. When he left, there were many tears shed by Mr. Dick Doll, myself included. I feel honored to have met him and privileged to be the caretaker of his, and now my beautiful 1955 Cessna 170B.

Thank you Mr. Doll.

I've bought a 206L4 that was done without actually seeing it in person until it arrived at our hangar. With very specific instructions on detailed pictures of the problem areas as well as about 20 minutes of videos from his phone including a power check in flight, we went for it. Turned out to be a very nice aircraft. I did trust the seller from previous meetings though.

akgreg wrote:I bought my 170 sight unseen from a gentleman in El Cajon. He was a 42k hour airplane pilot who lost his medical at 80 years old and 06B was his baby. He had done the interior, paint, 180 gear legs, all wiring, full ifr panel, sportsman's cuff, baggage door, right wing landing/taxi light, I think you get the idea. Oh yeah, the 180hp O-360 conversion as well.

I had my brother in law (who has his PPL) who lives in San Diego, go check and see if the plane looked nice. Awesome was his response to seeing it. We talked and a deal was made. Avemco handled all the paperwork. We would split the cost of an annual and the owner had always wanted to fly to Alaska. He got a buddy of his to fly with him up north and deliver the plane to me as part of the purchase price. It was his swan song trip and he loved every minute of it.

When I saw the plane in person plane, I was elated. It was everything advertised and more. They stayed at our house for a couple days and he showed me a few things about flying tail draggers. When he left, there were many tears shed by Mr. Dick Doll, myself included. I feel honored to have met him and privileged to be the caretaker of his, and now my beautiful 1955 Cessna 170B.

Thank you Mr. Doll.

I believe that I met Dick and his son at Johnson Creek back in about 2006. Beautiful plane and a real neat guy to talk shop with!

Cool story Greg!

robw56 wrote:I bought my first airplane sight unseen from some shady character in Oregon who runs some sort of flying website. I had my dad and his IA do a prebuy/annual on it and it worked out pretty good.

We have our fair share of scumbags and scammers around here!

We are brothers in Charley...may he rest in peace.



Now that said, I also bought my 170 sight-unseen out of Iowa with the help of a broker from the Portland area who didn't really do me much of a service during the pre-buy. My first annual was very expensive and I learned to never again buy and airplane sight-unseen, or at least not without some agreed-upon conditions and an experienced advocate to look it over for me.

Would very much recommend against sight-unseen unless you have someone you trust, preferably an A&P that can put eyes on it for you. For that matter, I would recommend you have an IA you trust annual it for you before money changes hands. Even if the last annual was signed off yesterday. Too many expensive variables at play, even in the relatively simple airplanes we fly.

bushpilot490 wrote:Would very much recommend against sight-unseen unless you have someone you trust, preferably an A&P that can put eyes on it for you. For that matter, I would recommend you have an IA you trust annual it for you before money changes hands. Even if the last annual was signed off yesterday. Too many expensive variables at play, even in the relatively simple airplanes we fly.

I “sort of” bought my current ride sight unseen. That said, I went to deliver the check and fly it home with the understanding that if I didn’t like the looks of something, I’d return home via Delta. Also, the pre purchase inspection was done by a DAR, and, while he didn’t sign off an annual inspection, (the sellers broker did) he did issue a new airworthiness certificate. I felt pretty good with that. I also knew the brokers reputation, though we’d never met, and he complied with all the stipulations I asked for without argument, some of which were expensive.

Every transaction is different. You have to be comfortable with what you’re getting. Even if you’re hiring someone to fly it home, I’d go there, even for just a day to look everything over thoroughly myself before I handed the big check to the seller.

As far as money goes, an escrow account can hold funds until everyone is satisfied that conditions are met.

Finally, understand that there are no “new car warranties” on old airplanes. If you buy it, it’s yours, warts and all. Yes, you could hire a lawyer and go after the seller for mis representing something, but you’ll likely spend more on the lawyer than it’s worth.

In other words, buyer beware.

MTV

I started the buying process for my plane sight-unseen. Due to some unfortunate timing of events we had to hold the sale for a while and I got to go see the plane in person and meet the builder/seller. He was every bit of the person he appeared to be and I trust him. Ended up buying the Racer with no pre-buy because I knew Roger had already shared everything that mattered about the airplane.

Roger and I still email and trade the occasional phone call to keep up with each other.

I hope everyone has a chance to experience an airplane sale like mine was. I got an amazing airplane at a very fair price and gained a friend as well!

Zzz wrote:......We are brothers in Charley...may he rest in peace......

"May he rest in peace"....don't think I ever heard about that.

Texas to Portland is not very far. Probably lead to better sleeping to go see it.

merrymunks wrote:
1966 Maule M-4-210C.

I bought a M5-210c. Put a new engine in it and doing several other upgrades. Let me know if I can help with questions. I’m not a expert, but I can share what I know. It’s a pretty easy airplane to work on.

I would recommend a prebuy by someone familiar with tube and fabric planes. If they have maule experience then that’s a plus.

Call me weird but I kinda prefer the look of the M4 tail.

Buying an airplane sight unseen can be a pure leap of faith exercise. I bought a C180 located in Tennessee effectively ‘sight unseen’. Like Scolopax has said – who is selling it is a primary indicator of whether or not you should even be in the conversation.

In my case, I did some research on the seller. The responses all came back very positive. GA is a small community and it’s not hard to locate someone familiar with the seller. In this case, the family selling the airplane was well known in the area. Correspondence and conversations with the seller indicated that he was knowledgeable, and that he was being transparent.

Familiarity with the type of aircraft being purchased is important. Are you knowledgeable enough to know what questions to ask? If not, get someone involved that can help you. What are the common problems with the aircraft type that you should be satisfied have been properly addressed? Can the seller provide adequate documentation to satisfy your concerns? Are his responses timely and direct?

Documentation is important. The logbooks can tell you many stories – read them carefully. If you don’t understand what you are reading – ask for help.

As MTV did, I personally flew commercially to TN to fly the airplane home, with the understanding that if I didn’t like what I saw, the deal would be off. The money and paperwork were all placed in escrow until both of us, seller and buyer, agreed the deal was done.

After a good visual inspection of the airplane, I made an extended test flight with the seller. The pre-buy inspection was pretty superficial. I was familiar with the aircraft type and I was really only looking at a few specific common problem areas. All was well, the deal was done, and we flew the airplane home to Oregon. Two years later, I remain friends with the seller.

For a business, an airplane is generally a pure financial investment. For an individual, buying an airplane is also an emotional investment. You really should go and see any airplane you are buying, before you close the deal. And take your life partner along to get his/her support.

I have flown the route between Texas and Oregon many times and would be happy to offer you support if needed. Good luck with your decision.

There seem to be a lot of Maule owners in Texas, Maybe reach out to someone who is close to your prospective purchase and see if they could go take a look. You might post over at Maulepilots.org, I think there is a lonestar maule club also and someone might actually know the plane.