Backcountry Pilot • single vs twin

single vs twin

Aircraft building and project-level overhaul forum -- Kitplanes, experimental amateur-built, homebuilding, or even restoration of certified aircraft.
43 postsPage 2 of 31, 2, 3

Re: single vs twin

To reiderate what some have commented on already:

The single engine service ceiling for a twin is usually pretty low. (my twin commanche was like 5000 feet)

If you define back country flying as short unimproved strips (some of which may be above 5000 MSL) the extra engine creates more of a disadvantage than an advantage. Maybe the Cessna 336 or the 326 which have a centerline thrust would be an option. I have never flown one and they arent seen too often in the back country (by me at least).
Very few twins will have minimum contrallable airspeeds that are slow enough to allow for a short take off and landing. Also consider accellerate stop distance. An engine failure on takeoff is the worst scenario and unless you have enough runway to accelerate to takeoff speed and shut down and stop before the end of the runway, you can kiss your ass goodbuy.

If given the coice of a C310 or C210 for crossing a high maountain pass, I would choose the 210 hands down. The failure of an engine is easier to deal with IMO. If you need to look for a clearing to land in while trying to keep your crippled twin flying, you are going to spend too much attention to controlling the plane or not enough on finding the best place to land. Better visibility below with a high wing too. Twins are overrated. I only got my multi engine ticket so I could work as a pilot. The more I learned about flying twins , the less comfortable I was with them. Flying a twin in IMC alone is a chore too. A twin otter may be the exception to all of this, but that's a lot of expense for flying the backcountry.
obxbushpilot offline
User avatar
Posts: 240
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2009 8:26 pm
Location: Seward, AK
Aircraft: C 172 Tailwheel

Re: single vs twin

sigmatero wrote:In other words, does the fact that it's a twin turn you off because of the extra flying requirements, or does the added safety of the extra engine in the backcountry make up for the complexity?


Not at all!
This was built to explore that exact idea, and the rumor mill suggests the idea is alive, well, and potentially moving towards a marketable direction...
Image
Image

Take care, Rob
Rob offline
Supporter
User avatar
Posts: 1569
Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2006 10:34 am

Re: single vs twin

soyAnarchisto wrote:Blu - odds of engine failure are purely independent. It is a mathematical impossibility to double the odds of failure with a second engine.


You are right and then less right.

They are independant, but think about it this way. If an "average engine" fails once in 10,000 hours, and it can happen anywhere in that 10,000 hours (random failure pattern - not a good assumption but for this example we'll assume).
Then if you took 100 engines and ran them all at once, you would expect that one fails every 100 hours (every combined 10,000 hours of service life across the fleet).

So while the probability either engine fails remains the same (you're right), the cumulative chance of a failure occurring anywhere in the system is increased.
Battson offline
Knowledge Base Author
User avatar
Posts: 1810
Joined: Wed May 09, 2012 11:19 pm
Location: New Zealand
Aircraft: Bearhawk 4-place
IO-540 260hp

Re: single vs twin

i thought that aircam looked impressive,docile single engine operation. :?
cropduster13 offline
Posts: 30
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2012 8:12 am
Location: el paso texas

Re: single vs twin

Aeroprakt took a stab at this concept with their A-36 twin, but it's out of production now. Cruise around 120 knots, cost about $175,000. They claimed 800 fpm climb and a 15,000 ft ceiling on one Rotax 912S. Details: http://www.dreamwings.co.za/Other_aircraft/a36.htm

With both engines running it does this:

nutria rat offline
User avatar
Posts: 25
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2011 10:38 pm
Location: NOLA

Re: single vs twin

Wow that's pretty impressive
Wonder why it didn't catch on?
Blu offline
Posts: 347
Joined: Mon Apr 19, 2010 11:38 am
Location: palisade

Re: single vs twin

hey I think I would fly this twin in the bush helio courier h-500 twin

Image
cstolaircraft offline
User avatar
Posts: 523
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 12:50 pm
Location: Blackwell, Mo
Mission Pilot in training. C-170B N8098A.
But they that wait upon the Lord shall renew their strength; they shall mount up on wings as eagles... Isaiah 40:31

Re: single vs twin

cstolaircraft wrote:hey I think I would fly this twin in the bush helio courier h-500 twin

What are those pods on the wing tips?
Seems a strange place for extra fuel (high bending moment).
Battson offline
Knowledge Base Author
User avatar
Posts: 1810
Joined: Wed May 09, 2012 11:19 pm
Location: New Zealand
Aircraft: Bearhawk 4-place
IO-540 260hp

Re: single vs twin

Rob,
What is that? I want one...
pdknight offline
Posts: 65
Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2009 11:28 pm
Location: Tacoma, WA

Re: single vs twin

Image
Dornier DO28
Not 200hp and not good on 1 engine, but is pretty decent performance, Looks like it would work tho.
M6RV6 offline
User avatar
Posts: 2313
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2008 5:52 pm
Location: Rice Wa. 82WN Magee Creek AERODROME
FindMeSpot URL: http://share.findmespot.com/shared/face ... sWKXuhKlg2
Have as much Fun as is Safe, and Keep SMILIN! GT,

Re: single vs twin

Rob wrote:
sigmatero wrote:In other words, does the fact that it's a twin turn you off because of the extra flying requirements, or does the added safety of the extra engine in the backcountry make up for the complexity?


Not at all!
This was built to explore that exact idea, and the rumor mill suggests the idea is alive, well, and potentially moving towards a marketable direction...
Image
Image

Take care, Rob


Well I guess I misjudged. Something like this would make a great back country plane assuming it performs like it looks :D
Blu offline
Posts: 347
Joined: Mon Apr 19, 2010 11:38 am
Location: palisade

Re: single vs twin

Image
soyAnarchisto offline
Supporter
User avatar
Posts: 1975
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2011 1:23 pm
Location: Boulder, CO
Aircraft: 1955 Cessna 180

Re: single vs twin

soy
Call me weird, but I think that is one of the most beautiful aircraft built!!
GT
M6RV6 offline
User avatar
Posts: 2313
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2008 5:52 pm
Location: Rice Wa. 82WN Magee Creek AERODROME
FindMeSpot URL: http://share.findmespot.com/shared/face ... sWKXuhKlg2
Have as much Fun as is Safe, and Keep SMILIN! GT,

Re: single vs twin

I don't think you are weird. I think you are right. Rutan is a genious.
soyAnarchisto offline
Supporter
User avatar
Posts: 1975
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2011 1:23 pm
Location: Boulder, CO
Aircraft: 1955 Cessna 180

Re: single vs twin

I was going to mention the Defiant. Two o-320 Lycomings. Not a bush plane by a long shot but a nice traveler. Cheap.

EB
Mister701 offline
User avatar
Posts: 2134
Joined: Thu Dec 05, 2013 11:13 pm
Location: Sparks
Aircraft: Rans S7LS

Re: single vs twin

Hey GT, don't mistake the Dornier D28 D with the D28 B-1. They are completely different airplanes. The D model is a big heavy clunker with gear engines. It's pretty good for skydiving from long runways.

Now, the B-1 is a whole different airplane. Used by Air America in SE Asia extensively from jungle strips (or more like clearings), is the real STOL version, much smaller with Lyc 540 290hp engines. Here is a picture:

Image

Eduardo
PatínLoco offline
User avatar
Posts: 305
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2012 12:10 pm
Location: El Salvador

Re: single vs twin

I don't know how much this has in relation to the original post, but there are a few posts and pictures of light twin so I thought that I'd throw in another. According to wikipedia, the Pilatus Twin Porter never went beyond a prototype. Once the Turbo Porter came out it probably wasn't really needed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilatus_PC-8D_Twin_Porter

Image


-Nate
flattie45 offline
User avatar
Posts: 50
Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2010 12:31 pm
Location: DOF

Re: single vs twin

PatínLoco wrote:Hey GT, don't mistake the Dornier D28 D with the D28 B-1. They are completely different airplanes. The D model is a big heavy clunker with gear engines. It's pretty good for skydiving from long runways.

Now, the B-1 is a whole different airplane. Used by Air America in SE Asia extensively from jungle strips (or more like clearings), is the real STOL version, much smaller with Lyc 540 290hp engines. Here is a picture:

Image

Eduardo

Yep Thats the one =D>
Has about the same specs as my Broussard, just goes a little faster [-o<
Seeing as it's a twinn, when you come up Take me for a ride and then we'll fly the Wilga and the Broussard, Makes 2 for 2 right!! :mrgreen: #-o
M6RV6 offline
User avatar
Posts: 2313
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2008 5:52 pm
Location: Rice Wa. 82WN Magee Creek AERODROME
FindMeSpot URL: http://share.findmespot.com/shared/face ... sWKXuhKlg2
Have as much Fun as is Safe, and Keep SMILIN! GT,

Re: single vs twin

Blu wrote:
What's the saying about light twins "the second engine has just enough power to get you to the scene of the crash" :|


..which is convenient since you are headed that way anyway..
pouellette offline
User avatar
Posts: 81
Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2011 1:42 pm
Location: WMA
Aircraft: RANS S7S
CHEROKEE 140

Re: single vs twin

You got yourself a deal, GT!! Those are two airplanes I've wanted to fly for a long time. And, if you come to El Salvador, you can fly a C-47, L 4 Cub, and 450 Stearman. Wow, have you noticed that there are a lot of pilots out there that do not understand us!
PatínLoco offline
User avatar
Posts: 305
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2012 12:10 pm
Location: El Salvador

DISPLAY OPTIONS

PreviousNext
43 postsPage 2 of 31, 2, 3

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests

Latest Features

Latest Knowledge Base