Hi All,
Well it is that time where camping at fly ins this year is tripling for me. My old cheap bag is threadbear and needs to be retired. I have been looking at the Park series by Big Agnes for the larger more rotund Supercub pilot. It has this built in pad system and I was wondering does this really work and has anyone had real experience with these bags.
My camping is normally limited to 3 seasons so deep winter requirements are not needed.
Thanks
John

I almost bought one of those Big Agnes systems, but when I asked around I got some mixed reviews so I stuck with my old therma-rest. I never had the chance to try one myself though, so I can't warn you off them from actual experience.

If you're not familiar, sierratradingpost usually has some good deals on bags, and if you google around you can usually find a coupon for a deeper discount and sometimes free shipping.

As a former sleeping bag designer, I can say that the problem with the integral pad/bag systems is that when you roll over onto your side, the pad can lift up, and you end up sleeping on the bags side with no pad underneath. Now if you are super skinny inside the bag, then this can be avoided as you turn over inside, but as a larger guy (6'4" and 225 lbs) the whole bag usually rolls with me.
Jim

I'm admittedly unfamiliar with the brands you mention, but I have been a product tester for many years for a leading gear retailer, including sleeping bags. An integral pad seems like a gimmick to me personally, for the above issue of when you roll over, etc...

A bigger issue, speaking as a wilderness EMT and long-time mountain rescue member, is the versatility you get from a plain old ensolite or Ridge Rest brand pad. Can be used for splints, insulation from ground contact, and can be cut up and not lose its insulating properties, as opposed to a Therma Rest, or other air-filled pad.

Personally I enjoy a good night's sleep on Therma Rests, but I like to have at least one closed-cell foam pad along any expedition, and I keep at least two of them in the extended baggage of my plane at all times.

Another important consideration for you is probably down/ synthetic. Consider the likelihood that your bag will be exposed to wet conditions.

You might take a look at Wiggy's bags- I think they run generous in the sizing.

Happy Camping,

-Denalipilot

I have had quite a number of bags over the years (old Boy Scouter). My favorite is my Mountain Hardwear bag. It is synthetic and has accordian expansion built into it. When I turn on my side or curl up my legs, the bag automatically expands or contracts to fit my position. Most comfortable bag I have ever been in.

I also have to stick w/ the mtn hardwear bags. High quality good prices great compressability. I probably sell them 3-1 on everything else. If you PM me I might be able to hook you up w/ a pretty good deal on on depending what you want we have a bunch in stock.

Mike

I've been using Big Agnes bags and pads since 2001 and they have treated me very well. When I first read about them I was a skeptical of the concept, but after taking a couple bags and pads out for a demo, I decided the integrated pad is a pretty sweet deal. The whole operation just feels more like a bed...somehow more snug.

They have two types of pads: one is the same as a Therma Rest (self-inflating foam) and the other is called the Air Core pad and it is much thicker and you blow it up. At first I was partial to the self-inflating pad, but now I prefer the other...it's thick and really comfortable. Also, they recently came out with an insulated version of the Air Core pad that is supposed to make it warmer (I haven't tried this, but I want one).

When I roll on my side the the pad doesn't lift (my bags are roomy), but if you like to lay on your side in a fetal position the bag won't bend with you like a standard bag...instead, you bend inside the bag...more like in your bed at home. I don't think its a deal breaker...just something I've noticed.

I have one style of Big Agnes bag and pad at skymountaingear.com, but I can get all their products. If you're interested in any of their products, let me know. Remember BCP members get a 10% discount on all purchases and it helps pay for shortfield.com.

Mountain Hardware makes great gear and I'm sure you'd be happy with one of their bags too.

Thanks for the heads up and yes Mike I will PM you. The Thermarest pads I am not familiar with do they add alot of bulk and space to the SC without extended baggage? I have an inexpensive Coleman 3 man tent but it is heavy and takes up a fair amount of room.
Thanks for your comments
John

I'll second everything Denalipilot said. I've had too many uncomfortable nights from a thermarest that leaked. Now I use a ridge rest or similar closed cell foam pad. Unless I'm camping out of my truck, then I have a Wiggys pad that's great, but too bulky and heavy for plane or backpack use.

I'm also a big fan of Wiggys sleeping bags. I have the 0 degree rated bag with over bag making it a -40 combo. They're the only bags I've found that are really comfortable at their rated temp. And after one very cold night when the cheap zipper on my previous bag failed I love the heavy duty ones that wiggys uses. Moose hunting 2 years ago out of a single wall tent, we woke up the first morning to the ceiling raining condensation and a coat of ice on my Wiggys bag. I never woke up and was still nice and warm inside.

Phil

Both my wife and I have/had Wiggy's bags. She was totally cold in her bag even though it was rated 20 degrees colder than when we were camping. We sent the bag back to Wiggy and got a full refund. I am reasonably happy with mine. Since we only camp in the summer and I am a warm sleeper, my bag has been fine. I like the idea that the insulating material will not lose insulating properties when wet.

I spent the night in a nylon tent at -20 with a -20 sleeping bag one time and if I learned anything, it was that the rating only means you will not die at that temperture.

Small Tail Caddy wrote:I spent the night in a nylon tent at -20 with a -20 sleeping bag one time and if I learned anything, it was that the rating only means you will not die at that temperture.

My hunting partner refers to the -10 rating on his bag as the "Freeze to death temperature".
I generally avoid winter camping, but my -40 Wiggys combo at -10 was too hot, I had to open the hood and partially unzip it.

Phil

Small Tail Caddy wrote:I spent the night in a nylon tent at -20 with a -20 sleeping bag one time and if I learned anything, it was that the rating only means you will not die at that temperture.

Haha agreed. I have a 0 degree North Face Snowshoe, and I am comfortable at 20-30 degrees in just socks and boxers, which is how I like to sleep. Any colder and I have to start layering up, which is not a problem.

The tough decision is synthetic vs down. Down is so light and compressible, but synthetic insulation will keep you warm when wet, and generally lasts longer as it doesn't lose its loft. It's heavier though.

After I'd owned my North Face for about a year, I met my girlfriend. I made sure when I bought her a sleeping bag that it was also a North Face and that the zipper was on the opposite side, so we can zip them together. That helps on a cold night.

"Zip them together", that will stop when you get married. Separate tents is almost required if, god help you, you snore.

Wiggy's

I used to go sheep hunting every fall here in Alaska and the evening temperatures were generally moderate, rarely much below 10 degrees F. My partner always used a ground pad integrated bag. Don't know if it was a Big Agnes, but the same concept. It was kind of bulky, but his stuff bag had draw strings similar to a woman's corset, so he could get it compacted down to a manageable size. Generally by about the 8th day out, his pad would become somewhat saturated with water from ground moisture and normal perspiration. It seemed to be a flaw in the design as he could not get the pad dried out in the short time in the morning or evening before turning in.

Conversely, I used a separate ground pad, and later a thin "blow up" pad, and while I didn't have moisture problems, I was always sliding off the pad on steep terrain and often found my feet laying outside of the tent and, at least in my fertile imagination, vulnerable to being dragged out from under the tent by a passing bear. (We always used a tee pee type fly as our tent rather than a fully enclosed composite tent and fly.)

My partner never did change out his sleeping bag, but then he was never the type that would.

I latter found a better solution than what both of us had been using. Personally, from my experience and from what I could tell of my partners experience, my recommendation would be to use a bag and separate ground pad, but tie them both together with a bivouac bag. The Bivvy bag will tie your sleeping bag and ground pad together, but more importantly, the Bivvy bag could save your life in the event of high winds and rain. You will stay dry and warm when everything else is in tatters around you. I learned this valuable lesson down on the Kenai when my partner was becoming hypothermic from gale force winds, rain, and a collapsed tent and I was warm and dry.

Nizina

flying miss daisy wrote:Hi All,
Well it is that time where camping at fly ins this year is tripling for me. My old cheap bag is threadbear and needs to be retired. I have been looking at the Park series by Big Agnes for the larger more rotund Supercub pilot. It has this built in pad system and I was wondering does this really work and has anyone had real experience with these bags.
My camping is normally limited to 3 seasons so deep winter requirements are not needed.
Thanks
John

Having spent a good deal of nights sleeping (or attempting to)out side .When tempatures go low (say under 40 or so)
the ground insulation is very important. Pads are ok and light but I use a portable airmattress with a old army blanket then the sleeping bag. I have "mummy bag" (old military surplus -down) that works pretty good. I wrap the sleeping bag in a Poncho and liner for max comfort.I like to be warm at night or I don't sleep well . Think Down for warm and light.
I'm sure you can spend mucho dollars for some super mountain package but mines low dollars for same result.

Hi FMD, I use a thermarest pad, LLBean down bag, a down pillow, and a 2-place Eureka tent. For versatility, I made a flannel sleep-sack (like the youth hostel sacks). If it's cold, I keep it inside the down bag, but if it's pretty warm I sleep in the sack on top of the bag. The sack also helps to keep the bag clean. It's a combination I've used for years and am happy with it for 3-season camping.

Everything I take fits in the standard SC baggage compartment, including tie downs, a small duffel bag for clothes, and some other miscellaneous stuff (like a tent light, flashlight, rags to wipe down the plane in the morning, more stuff...).

Good luck & happy camping!

ASW.

Ford Wilson wrote:"Zip them together", that will stop when you get married. Separate tents is almost required if, god help you, you snore.

I wish! When I got married someone gave us a two person bag and my wife makes me take it everytime we go camping...we even took it down the Grand Canyon this past Christmas. It is massive so we never take it when we go in the airplane.

For the past 6 years I have been using a Ajungilak bag and I love it, they have been bought out by Mammut so I dont know what they are like now. My wife uses a Mammut and she likes it. She sleeps really cold so she likes a 0deg bag in the muddle of the summer. After a week of using the two-person bag on the GC she was tired of it and started using her Mammut and never got cold but she did sleep in fleece. I can't were anything but boxers when I sleep and I was fine in my bag during the entire trip. The lowest overnight temp was 29F so it wasn't too bad.

I am still young and dumb so I never use a pad except when on a long river trip and then I use a river pad. My plan is to have a Maule by the time I need a pad, taking my river pad in a Maule will be no problem.

whee wrote:I am still young and dumb so I never use a pad except when on a long river trip ...

Whee, it has nothing to do with being dumb. It is just a fact of life that the ground gets harder as the earth ages! Kind of like what happens when water gets colder.