Have not been there and do not want to be. Planning should keep you out but what if. If you cannot turn around is it better to go full flaps and climb at slow speed? Impact will not be as hard.

Tim

I'm not sure I understand the question. Most airplanes will not climb as well with full flaps as they will with partial flaps. If you are asking "what do I do if a crash is unavoidable", then my answer would be the most important consideration in any emergency is aircraft control. I would try to find the best looking spot and try to hit with as little foward speed as possible, while still maintaining control. I believe in the adage to fly the aircraft into the crash as far as possible, once you become a passenger, then it's all up to luck
Now this is just an opinion, whatever it's worth

a64pilot wrote:then my answer would be the most important consideration in any emergency is aircraft control. I would try to find the best looking spot and try to hit with as little foward speed as possible, while still maintaining control. I believe in the adage to fly the aircraft into the crash as far as possible

A64 is right. Over the years and hours, civilian or military, for me the feeling of experience was learning how to function while absolutely terrified, and how to stay cold and calculating, even though I knew I was going to be very dead, in a very painful way, in just a few seconds. Guess it's part of the human "Fight or Flight" reaction to stress, and as a pilot, you'd better be in the "Fight" mode when something goes wrong.

Gump

GumpAir wrote:function while absolutely terrified, and how to stay cold and calculating

We had a torpedo go hot on the submarine once and I witnessed this exact thing. We were all biting button holes in our shorts.

I guess I would probably put in 20 deg flaps, max power and max prop rpm and try to fly out. Then if the plane was going to get all bent up I would put in 40 and fly as slow as possible into the ground.

Tim

To build on what was said above, if you can't climb and you can't turn, config for landing, slow it down to approach speed and fly it under to control to impact.

I would suggest reading Sparky's Mountain Flying Bible. He talks exactly about this. What I liked about this book is that he goes beyond where other books end. It is the only book that I have ever read that talks about HOW to crash a plane and what things to consider, like what kind of vegetation to look for and how G loading affects the outcome, and energy management just to name a few. It is definately worth a read.

a64pilot wrote:fly the aircraft into the crash as far as possible

It's like the eternally optimistic guy who accidentally fell off the roof of the Empire State Building. As he passed the eighth floor, a witness heard him say, "Well, so far so good!"

Gump

Yeah, but there was also the eternally pessimistic guy.
Armageddon arrived, the world was devastated, all was a wasteland and one lonely fellow survived.
He could'nt face being the only human left on the planet so made his long trek to the Empire State building, suffered up the long stairs to the top, took one last look across the damage wreaked by his species and jumped.

As he plummeted past the 9th floor he heard a phone ringing.

Jeremy

I'd be flying around in an F plane dropping nukes just for fun if I was the last guy alive.

Or something even worse that I have not thought of yet.......

This exact situation happened near Fairbanks just a couple years ago. A 172 pilot with 4 people, at 5,000ft got into a situation where he couldn't out climb the terrain, couldn't turn around. He flew the plane into the slope at Vx and full power. His climb angle was close enough to the angle of the slope that everyone on board walked away. The plane was not so lucky, but that's the least of your worries in that situation.

I've seen multiple studies showing that crash survival rate is inversely proportional to impact angle. So if you have to fly it into rising terrain I'd have to say you're best bet is what the 172 pilot did. Vx is going to be your slowest speed, and shallowest impact angle. For example in my 150, V0 is 54 mph, that's power off, full flaps stall. But Vx is only 51mph, flaps retracted, full power.

Definitly pick up a copy of the Mountain Flying Bible. It's got a lot of information on how to avoid this situation, how to get out of it, and what to do if you can't. Besides, practicing canyon turns is a real kick!

Phil

I wonder if Sparky is gonna revise that chapter about crashing now, after first hand experience.....

"fly at Vx, full power until you meet the terrain"

A slight alteration to this plan would be to maintain speed if possible and pull up to meet the terrain converting airspeed to climb. Going into Mile Hi, Wiley/Davis Ranch, and Cache Creek I maintain a slightly higher speed on approach so I can pull up to meet the angle. I wouldn't want to be flat at my normal over the fence speed and then simply add power and hope Vx angle will adequately match the terrain.
This of course depends on where that elusive best place to crash may be in relation to your current position and elevation. In keeping places to "land" in mind while out flying, it is easy to see that with engine failure in some places you may be required to dive for airspeed before pulling up into the terrain, trying to contact it at the apex of your climb when your inertia is waning.
John, would you like to give your 2 bits? I know you weren't in a can't turn situation, but still...