When taking the ppl I was never trained on this.
Seemsto me a rather important skill to have.
i have tried to practice it but dont hit the exact spot I want.

Any tips, advice you guys want to share?

Keep practicing! Find something that is a definite landmark on the runway like the numbers. Putting her EXACTLY where you want her is the first step in landing short.

Based on my own experiences, I think there are two fundamental issues that you need to master.
1) While on final, you need to know where you're aimed. In other words, if you leave the throttle and yoke at the current settings, where will you end up touching down?
2) Slow flight, because the slower you're going, the easier it is to hit the mark. And, you're usually concerned about the touchdown point because the runway is short, and the slower you go, the quicker you will get stopped.

I'd suggest using 1.1 x Vs0 as the approach speed. When I was starting out, I had no idea what my stall speed was for various weights, altitudes, temperatures, etc. So, I would climb up a little, then reduce my power to my normal approach power, put on the flaps, and pull back to slowly bleed off the speed until I heard the stall warning. There's no need to actually stall while doing this training. Using the higher speed of the stall warning horn instead of the actual speed of stalling will give you an additional safety margin while you're developing your skills. So, let's say that with your current load, the stall warning came on at 50, so you're going to approach at 55.

The next thing you want to do is to practice your aim while flying the approach at 1.1 Vs0. The key is to use a stabilized approach, and keep a consistent sight picture. For practice, fly an extra long downwind leg of the pattern, then stay higher on the base leg to make up for the longer final leg. Keep your speed well above the 1.1 Vs0 during your turns to base and final unless your turns are exceptionally shallow. Once on final, apply any remaining flaps, and use your elevator to get your airspeed to 1.1 Vs0. Keep alternately looking between your airspeed indicator and the intended touch down point on the runway. Use the elevator to keep the airspeed exactly on 1.1 Vs0. Every time you look at the runway, decide if you're going to be too high or too low, and adjust the throttle a little to compensate. This is when it's important to have a consistent sight picture. You need to sit in the seat the same way every time, hold your head at the same level every time, and lean forward or back the same amount every time. I push my butt into the fold of the seat, push my back against the seat back, and hold my head up high in order to get a consistent sight picture. Some people also put a mark on their windshield to use as a "front sight", but if you do that, it's even more important to have your head in exactly the same position every time. Now, you just use your elevator to keep your exact desired speed, and make little throttle adjustments to control your elevation, and slowly ride it down to very short final. Most people say you should actually aim 100 feet short (or more or less, depending on the landing speed of your aircraft) to account for ground effect, since you will then float the extra distance to touchdown. When you get 20 feet off the ground, do what you normally do to land it, i.e. close your eyes and scream like a girl.

Edit: My technique is based on a conversation I had many years ago with Sparky Imeson. I just googled for imeson spot landing and found a web page that explains it better than I do:
http://www.mountainflying.com/Pages/mountain-flying/spot_method.html
RIP, Sparky!

motoadve wrote:When taking the ppl I was never trained on this.
Seemsto me a rather important skill to have.
i have tried to practice it but dont hit the exact spot I want.

Any tips, advice you guys want to share?

Um, let's see, a prominent task on the PPL practical test in this country is the "Short field landing". That involves, actually requires a spot landing.

I STRONGLY suggest you find a COMPETENT flight instructor, and learn the technique in the airplane NOT on the internet.

MTV

http://www.mountainflying.com/Pages/mou ... ethod.html

I've never tried this but it sounds good. Lots of other good info on the site too.

Here is another web site about Mtn. Flying.

http://www.canyonflying.com/approach.html

Trim

I can do decent short field landings, and one after the other about same lenght 600ft.
But Im talking about precise spot landing put the tires exactly in the spot I want , not 20 ft before or after

What MTV said.

Find a CFI who will work with you and teach you what you want and what you need.

Gump

In that last link Trimtab posted it suggests flying a pattern at Johnson Creek. Do you guys do that? Seems like another thread was talking about how to approach Johnson Creek and I assumed it was a straight in approach.

motoadve wrote:I can do decent short field landings, and one after the other about same lenght 600ft.
But Im talking about precise spot landing put the tires exactly in the spot I want , not 20 ft before or after

Good grief, hitting within +/- 20 feet is an excellent spot landing in my book. There's too many variables to literally land on a dime every time, because at slow speeds the slightest puff of wind can change your vector in any number of directions.

That said, there is one trick involving manual flaps that you can use to dramatically increase your accuracy. It's a good technique for winning spot landing contests and pissing off other contestants with electric flaps, but not a technique for general use. Learn to give it some power as you flare, just enough so that you can float along just one foot above the ground. When you get to the point you want touch down, dump the flaps. Your plane will plop down firmly. With just a little practice, you can usually get your touchdowns to +/- 1 ft.

Jaerl wrote:In that last link Trimtab posted it suggests flying a pattern at Johnson Creek. Do you guys do that? Seems like another thread was talking about how to approach Johnson Creek and I assumed it was a straight in approach.

I've always flown a pattern there. The canyon is huge, and it's just good procedure.

Good info here if anyone wants to follow up on that topic. Let's keep this one location-non-specific.

http://www.backcountrypilot.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5686

mtv wrote:I STRONGLY suggest you find a COMPETENT flight instructor, and learn the technique in the airplane NOT on the internet.

MTV

I may have some bad news for you about the new breed of instructors...

The best advice I can give you is to treat every landing like a spot landing. Even if you have 10,000 feet of runway, pick your spot on down wind, and stick to it. I usually use the bottom of the numbers but whatever you are comfortable with. Also remember that the best way to make a short landing is to learn how to make a spot landing at MCA. The runway is only as long as you can put in front of you at touchdown, and make sure that the plane is done flying when it touches the ground.

20 ft off my landing spot seems to be ok for instructors, 600ft short field landings also ok for them, i want to be able to land right on the spot and do 400ft short field landings
Maybe more practice and practice but Im always open to hear tips frommore experienced pilots will post a video of me landing about 20 ft past the intended landing spot.

I was never formally taught the Spot technique by an instructor. However, by these accounts, it appears that I do a variant of it nearly every time, and I'm setting it down reasonably close, usually within 20' of my target area. I'm open to receiving formal instruction by an instructor who does spot landings regularly.

motoadve wrote:20 ft off my landing spot seems to be ok for instructors, 600ft short field landings also ok for them, i want to be able to land right on the spot and do 400ft short field landings
Maybe more practice and practice but Im always open to hear tips frommore experienced pilots will post a video of me landing about 20 ft past the intended landing spot.

Then, find an instructor who doesn't have his or her head up their.....er, find someone who knows what they're doing. Contrary to EZ's comment, they are out there. You just have to look around a bit.

And, then practice, a LOT.

As noted in another post: Every landing should be a spot landing. And, a "short field" landing isn't going to be "short" if you don't touch down RIGHT on your spot, at minimum forward speed.

MTV

motoadve wrote:20 ft off my landing spot seems to be ok for instructors, 600ft short field landings also ok for them, i want to be able to land right on the spot and do 400ft short field landings
Maybe more practice and practice but Im always open to hear tips frommore experienced pilots will post a video of me landing about 20 ft past the intended landing spot.

45 years of practice later, I'm still trying to land on the spot and get shorter landings..

All I know is when landing uphill, and you start to think maybe you should add a little power, ADD A LOT RIGHT NOW!

I have asked some questions on here that pertain to my particular curiosity and may not be the smartest sounding questions to pose. There is no such thing as a stupid question. Let me say however, I think your concentrating on one aspect of your landing and it is something YOU must master through practice. No one has a book answer or can do it for you. Not even an instructor.

I one time won a spot landing contest at my home field on the day of a pancake fly-in. I did it through sheer confidence and determination. The guys who all flew in, i dont think were particularly happy with me. I did win an easy $100 bucks, with a trusted Cessna 150.

I had routinely demonstrated, to the dismay of the rental owner 100 foot landings in the C-150, with the help of hard braking and a good headwind, I was able to land short and use the first taxiway..big whoop right. It has no real world application, except personal satisfaction of mastering the airplanes capability's in a given condition.

Basically learning proper energy management, slow flight confidence and experience in fixing your eyes on a spot and either using power or attitude to make your airplane do what you want. If your in the ballpark Great! Dont sweat it if your missing it from 20ft. Your end result will ultimately have been determined on final. If you have a stabilized approach, or have a crosswind and final altitude (high or low) all will have a huge impact on your end spot.

If your high, you have to displace that altitude and that translates into more energy when you enter a slip or reduce power and dive. Then you have to take into account the amount of energy your carrying to the flare. To much and you will float. To little and you will come in with a thud.

My advice, spend a hour in the pattern and just concentrate on getting consistent landings to a general spot. Dont sweat. The EXACT spot. Your worrying about the wrong aspect of your landing. When you master consistent landings, then you can hone in on precision spots. But certainly dont beat yourself up about it.

Just my 2 cents, from a 500 hour C-150 flyer who has won many spot landing contests. BTW, spot landing contests you cannot re-apply power once you have taken it off on approach.

kevbert wrote:

motoadve wrote:I can do decent short field landings, and one after the other about same lenght 600ft.
But Im talking about precise spot landing put the tires exactly in the spot I want , not 20 ft before or after

Good grief, hitting within +/- 20 feet is an excellent spot landing in my book. There's too many variables to literally land on a dime every time, because at slow speeds the slightest puff of wind can change your vector in any number of directions.

That said, there is one trick involving manual flaps that you can use to dramatically increase your accuracy. It's a good technique for winning spot landing contests and pissing off other contestants with electric flaps, but not a technique for general use. Learn to give it some power as you flare, just enough so that you can float along just one foot above the ground. When you get to the point you want touch down, dump the flaps. Your plane will plop down firmly. With just a little practice, you can usually get your touchdowns to +/- 1 ft.

Most contests I've seen don't allow you to add power on final.