Milne "CC" Pocock, Cory Robin, Paddy pilot and Jughead are guests on this video about the stall warning on approach and final to short landings, bad procedure? good procedure?

Very good topic. Two years ago I was flying with a young pilot that came to Alaska looking for work. As we came in with the 180 stall horn was coming in at about tree top. On the ride out to supper he was trying to be polite and said that most of the CFI's in the Pacific Northwest usually don't train to have the stall horn going off on final and he would be happy to show me how to get the Cessna in softly (granted in his defense my landing while short is not soft). It took me a little bit to realize he was being polite because he was using my truck while looking for a job. I explained that almost every landing I do is training for short field work, I can do a professional style and use up 2-3 grand of runway like the rest but everyone knows my plane and makes fun of me if I am not off at the 600 ft turnoff. In two years he has over 2 thousand hours of Alaska bush flying and now we laugh about that day when he was thinking a stall horn on final was a bad thing. As the others have said "IT DEPENDS ON THE PLANE" Do's your stall horn go off 5 or 20 mph before the stall? Is it effected by gusty wind or slips? I have a Sportsman cuff on my 180 if I do not hear the horn on short final I know I am fast and better have a little extra room on the other end. I don't have one in the cub I just trim for my touchdown speed and let the plane do the rest. DENNY

Another very good training video, Larry, and a good topic. As Jughead mentioned, when we use enough power to eliminate the need to round out the stall warning does not go on as early in the approach. Slow enough to sink and with enough power to make the throttle a very effective glide angle and rate of descent control, we are throwing the extra relative wind of prop blast over the wing. Also Vso, and with it the stall warning device, becomes less relevant as we come into ground effect where the airplane stalls much slower. Very good lesson all.

Great job Larry. All star cast and always good to see you and Jughead.

I think less than 25% of the planes I've flown in the past 10 years even had a stall horn.

Can you get a camera angle of your AoA when on approach? It might help some of us who have never used one. In the plane I'm building the displays have built in AoA. Since I can customize the MGL displays I can use a couple versions of AoA display (ladder type and round dial), plus an audio channel which sounds like a variometer used by glider pilots. That audio channel appeals to me the most. I'd appreciate your thoughts.

Depends on the mission.

I range between good technique to horrible idea.

We landing on a sandbar somewhere very short, or are we shooting a ILS into Boston.

I thought that was the reminder alarm to lock up the ailerons and go with rudder.

Flyingzebra, you make my heart proud!

No stall horn, no problem.

About 35 years ago I had a flight review with an ex military flight instructor. I was a 200 hour Cherokee pilot and he asked me what I wanted to learn on the review. I told him I was afraid to slow the airplane down on approach to landings. For the whole flight he had me fly with the stall warning on...a light in this case.

Then we headed back to the airport at normal speed to land. He had me fly over the field above pattern altitude for a normal entry. We were about 1500 feet over the end of the runway when he said "Land straight ahead". I said, I don't think I can get down that quick. His reply was "You know this airplane will fly just fine slow". We touched down about mid field with plenty of distance left to stop.

It was fine with Colts and Pacers to use power to control sink so short wing airplanes would land slow enough to be safe. When Cherokee and POH came about, the suggested approach airspeed became way too fast to be safe. Same wing.

I like flying with the stall warning on for final approach. It acts as a poor man's AOA for me. There is some variability for each aircraft where the horn will sound. In my airplane it starts about 7-9 mph higher than where the airplane will buffet. If it were closer to the buffet I wouldn't ride the horn. It is good to practice STOL landing/takeoff techniques. Holding my pitch attitude right at the start of horn is a good technique for keeping my attention outside the airplane on the landing zone. Definitely only something I practice in light or no wind conditions - not when it is gusty. Great video as usual Larry.


Josh

Now you guys have got me wondering how much prop blast hits the stall warner on Cessnas. It has been years since I was in the same airplane on the pipeline daily. I made all landings power/pitch to touchdown on the numbers slowly and softly, but I really don't remember how much the stall warning squawked. In strong headwind components it didn't squawk even though I touched down with very little groundspeed. I was looking at the apparent rate of closure, glide angle, and numbers and going by feel mostly.

In the Cub Crafter videos they, like Patrick Romero, hold the same slow pitch attitude all the way down on a steep approach. That would be squawk all the way down. In these videos, Larry is decelerating on short final coming into ground effect. So not much squawk until deceleration. In the STOL contest videos, they use enough power to almost hover taxi in ground effect to the spot. The squawk would depend on where the device is mounted on the leading edge and how much prop blast it gets.

Since the pitch angle is higher with power to touchdown, is the angle of attack higher in ground effect? As Wolfgang says, the wing pushes air down. When that air hits the ground still strong, ground effect. Does that make a different angle of attack or just allow a greater angle of attack before critical?

CC Pocock taught me to fly a tail wheel so what ever he says goes for me. Brilliant pilot in my book.

NineThreeKilo wrote:Depends on the mission.

I range between good technique to horrible idea.

We landing on a sandbar somewhere very short, or are we shooting a ILS into Boston.

Agree. Nice to have an operable stall warning indicator in the weather.


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