I did my BFR in a newer 172SP today with the 180HP fuel injected motor. I've flown them in the past and have had always had problems starting them. This morning it was below freezing and it didn't catch the first time it fired. The next few minutes involved the instructor doing a 3 handed dance between the key, mixture, and throttle trying to get it started before the battery ran down. The last time I flew it I had issues right in front of the FBO after loading up some nervous passengers who had never been up in a small plane. The POH procedure is pretty vague. Is there any articles, techniques, or videos out there that would help me out so my family doesn't think I'm an incompetent idiot before I take them flying because I can't start the plane?

BTW I have the utmost respect for you guys flying heavy metal airplanes in the backcountry. It's sure alot easier to stick my little airplane into a tight spot. I had forgotton how heavy they felt and how much faster happens at 110kts compared to 60-70 after flying my airplane for a couple of years.

Joey,
Not sure about the I0-360, but I can tell you what I do with the 520 in the Bonanza. Cold, it should start right up 2nd or 3rd blade. Hot is another story.

Cold: Mixture full rich. Throttle in about 1" and run the boost pump until the fuel flow peaks, maybe 3-4 seconds. Throttle back to idle plus a turn or so in. Crank and she fires up. If I push the throttle in to far when running the boost pump, or not in far enough, it makes a difference and it may take 5-6 blades to fire. 1" seems to be the sweet spot on my Bonanza.

Hot: Same procedure with the Mixture,throttle and boost pump. Start cranking with the throttle at full idle and start advancing the throttle at a moderate pace. It will fire when the air/mixture is right, usually about half throttle. It fires, then immediately dies unless you get the boos pump back on. This is when the dance starts. If I get it just right, I flick the boost pump on and catch it before it dies, then retard the throttle before it revs up to high. Sometimes it works out and it starts smoothly without going over 1200rpm or so, other times, I don't get the throttle out in time and it comes to life at about 150hp, learching forward, blasting anything around, haha!

Anyway, thats what works for me in the Bonanza. Funny story........when getting my check out in the Bo, my instructor and I flew down to Fresno to have lunch with my Inlaws. We landed and headed to lunch. After lunch, they drove us back to the airport, excited to see the "new plane" that would be carrying their daugher and grandkids down to see them. The instructor and I got in and I proceeded to absolutely blow my first hot start, crank and crank, flood the engine etc. We sat there for 15 minutes to let the starter cool down as they watched, bewildered, haha.

Glad Im not the only one. They should offer a third hand kit with that engine.

Thanks Highroad that's the kind of info I'm looking for! She had me leave the mixture out this morning and then push it in as soon as it caught. I suspect we just didn't prime it long enough this morning. The hotstart is whole another animal.

Hi Joey,

I've been flying a friend's Beech Travel Air this past year, and it has the 180 HP IO-360's on it. The procedure I have been successful with (and it's what he taught me before handing over the keys) is:

Cold:

Mixture rich
Full throttle
Boost pump on to the count of five, which is about 4-6 psi FP then off
Throttle back to idle then crack it open 1/2" to 1"
Start (then I like to grab the throttle and pull it back to a nice lope, and not do the Dr. WOT start)

Hot:

Mixture rich
Full throttle
Boost pump on shorter this time, about 3 psi FP then off
Throttle back to idle then crack as above
Hit the starter and as the prop starts to turn, mixture back to idle cut-off
Soon as it fires, mixture rich
Then grab the throttle regarding that Dr. thing above.

The hot start seems to be a procedure that configures the combustion chamber to a slightly rich fuel mixture. Then you begin to attempt to start with the mixture off until that nano second moment when the fuel mixture is just right and bang. Then give it the fuel while the prop is coasting back to a stop and hope for the best. No scientific evidence here, just my perception.

I've heard stories about the FI hot start, but this procedure works very well. Starts quickly (2-3 blades cold, 5 blades hot. Not a lot of starter grinding.

This is the only FI airplane I have ever flown. It's been a very simple, reliable, and kind of fun airplane to fly while I rack up some multi engine hrs.

Let us know how it goes next time you fly it.

Tom

If I remember, I had an instructor in a Super Decathlon one time walk me though the start, and he had pull mixture full lean, then tap the starter until it fired, then immediately go full rich .

After years of trying all the combinations from Cold to Hot start I got fed up and got a Slick Start booster! http://www.chiefaircraft.com/slk-ss1002.html
I have had it now for 4 years and I can confirm that no matter what the ambient temp or hot engine temp. She starts every time first time every time with in 3 turns or less of the prop! I can't stand the Question mind set of any vehicle that I can't be certain she will start! It is that confidence factor squared!

Starting the Maule's IO-540 came down to this:

First start of the day, mixture rich, throttle cracked, boost pump for count of 7 when you should see fuel pressure come alive. Turn key and she starts.

Hot starts: took me a while to figure out what she wanted. Finally got the message that somewhere between idle cutoff and full rich there was a "G" spot that I had to find before either of us was going to get any satisfaction. So, no prime if she had been run earlier. Throttle open maybe an inch to two inches (more than cold start position). Start cranking and S-L-O-W-L-Y advance mixture looking for the spot. If you rush it, you will blow right through the narrow band, go from too lean to too rich, and the moment will be lost. You will pay for this.

When the fireworks start, leave the mixture where it is while you grab throttle to make sure there's enough to keep above idle but not enough to run above 1000 RPM or so. Then, quick as a bunny, back to the mixture to finish advancing it to the firewall. Again, this should not be a slamming motion but a smooth advance like you would do a throttle on takeoff.

Of course, I'm leaving out the infinite number of combinations like hot start in a hot place, hot start in a cold place, has she sat long enough to want a cold start... Just accept the fact that no two will be exactly the same. That's why I love 'em. In general tho, doing a slow scan with the mixture to find the sweet spot worked best for me. You might crank a few more turns than the instant cold start, but that lets the engine driven fuel pump start trying to deliver some fuel which YOU control with the mixture. With a boost pump for hot startup, you never quite know how much got in there.

YB

Hot starts I find the opposite sometimes. Mixture lean cutoff and advance throttle to half or so. While cranking pull throttle back slowly until it lights. Advance mixture and continue pulling throttle back to your idle. Gotta find that happy place between the air and fuel.

I get in the 206 after it sits in the hanger freezing it's balls off for a month and I crank it like I just jumped in a Buick . Throttle in out , crank the starter. Tap your head and rub your belly. Starts almost every time.

Fuel injected Lyc has a completely different injection system than a Cont.
On a Lyc, my best luck for a hot start was leave the mixture at cut off, throttle where you shut it off(1000 rpm) don't touch, hit the prime for just a short moment, pause about 10-20 seconds, then crank, feed in the throttle after about 3 blades, when it fires shove the mixture in and tap the fuel pump just a second.
If that doesn't work go back flood the engine, pull the mixture to lean cut off and crank until it fires as you slowly feed the throttle in.
Work about most of the time if you held your head right, and got up on the left side of the bed!!
GT

I musta just been lucky... Never had issues with Lycs or Conts. Hot or cold.

Gump

Thanks for all the replies. Glad to hear its not just my lack of experience that made it seem difficult. Guess I just need to practice and find something that works for that airplane.

AvidFlyer wrote:Thanks for all the replies. Glad to hear its not just my lack of experience that made it seem difficult. Guess I just need to practice and find something that works for that airplane.

I had the same exact problem with the newer 172SP's at Fullerton. I kept wanting to start like my old carberated 182 I also kept wanting to fly it like my plane, too

Hunnerts of years ago when I was flying a series of FI airplanes (Mooneys, Cessnas, Pipers, both Continentals and Lycomings), I found that the POH method worked fine for cold starts--whatever that airplane's POH said to do. Most of them were something similar to throttle cracked, mixture rich, pump on to peak pressure, pump off, crank.

Hot starts were something else, as the POH method seldom worked. What did work with each of them was throttle part open, mixture full rich, flood it with the pump, then pump off, mixture to idle cut-off, crank till it fired, mixture to full rich and adjust the throttle. The only trick was to go to full rich as soon as the engine fired, because otherwise it would starve, and you'd have to start all over again.

The only airplane I ever had trouble starting with the above hot start method was a tired Arrow, and it was largely because its battery was similarly tired.

Cary

M6RV6 wrote:Fuel injected Lyc has a completely different injection system than a Cont.
On a Lyc, my best luck for a hot start was leave the mixture at cut off, throttle where you shut it off(1000 rpm) don't touch, hit the prime for just a short moment, pause about 10-20 seconds, then crank, feed in the throttle after about 3 blades, when it fires shove the mixture in and tap the fuel pump just a second.
If that doesn't work go back flood the engine, pull the mixture to lean cut off and crank until it fires as you slowly feed the throttle in.
Work about most of the time if you held your head right, and got up on the left side of the bed!!
GT

I have Lyc I0-390 and use George's technique...the cold start aint an issue for anyone...the only variant here is that on a hot start, I push the throttle forward past half and I dont wait the 10-20 secs nor tap the fuel pump and it seems to work like a charm. Again, as George sais, if on the first time it doest work or if on floats and need it to start (C206), I'll flood the engine with mixture cut off and throttle in and it always works. I like the idea of the slick start...may have to look into that. BCT