Skylane_Guy wrote:Check the upper right corner of that photo above. Looks like chew marks to me. Perhaps canine?
C.

Sometime when the turbulence is bad I chew my pilot's licence. It makes me feel better...

delete

Usually when they're scattered that bad, it's flight into a cloud full of rocks. Even the worst landing, for whatever reason, into whatever terrain, shouldn't have tore up the plane that bad, I don't think.

Or, he was unconscious, a good bump has rung my bell a couple of times.

My $.02

Still sucks though, he was quite a guy....

Sounds like there were other people flying in Nevada that day and lived to tell the tale. Understand it was a little windy that day but still...he almost had to be unconscious. Bump on the head. Heart attack. Stroke. Something. We had a guy in our EAA chapter experience a heart attack while doing a low-level roll. He went inverted and then pulled "up" right into the ground. So, you just never know.

svanarts wrote: "Understand it was a little windy that day but still...he almost had to be unconscious"

Don't EVER underestimate the power of a downdraft in the mountains, particularly at altitude. To do so can most certainly kill you. There are lots of things that could have led to this accident which are a lot more likely than the pilot having a heart attack or him flying into a cloud filled with mountain.

You can get your butt splattered all over a mountainside trying to get out of a downdraft that you simply didn't anticipate. Trust me.

MTV

Flat Country Pilot wrote:Skylane Guy wrote

Check the upper right corner of that photo above. Looks like chew marks to me. Perhaps canine?

Maybe its heat from a fire. Distorted the plastic.

Bill

I thought that too. And maybe that happened as well. But, in looking closer you can see evenly spaced "marks" in a semi circular pattern an inch or so in. looks like ball point pen sized indentations. I think the critters had indeed been chewing on the stuff.

From Mauleaviator:

I don't get the argument about the weather? Any of us who has truly flown the Sierra's knows that it can be brutal for minutes and calm for minutes and then right back to brutal. I have gone from 138 MPH to 80MPH and then back to 140 mph just to keep my head from hitting the top of the cabin. To say the weather was calm where you happened to be is pointless chatter.

More "pointless chatter" for your comment...

I flew from KTRM to Smith Valley (west of Yerington) this morning. The entire route of 3.2 hours had no turbulence and minimal wind. Seems it could go either way.

No argument. Just the facts.

mtv wrote:svanarts wrote: "Understand it was a little windy that day but still...he almost had to be unconscious"

Don't EVER underestimate the power of a downdraft in the mountains, particularly at altitude. To do so can most certainly kill you. There are lots of things that could have led to this accident which are a lot more likely than the pilot having a heart attack or him flying into a cloud filled with mountain.

You can get your butt splattered all over a mountainside trying to get out of a downdraft that you simply didn't anticipate. Trust me.

MTV

I've flown over the Sierras a time or two. I know. I said could have been a bump on the head. Would be interesting to see the wreckage pattern. Actually since the engine was found separate from the crash site it's almost certain it wasn't driven straight in. But then when the ground is angled like in the mountains all kids of wierd things can happen when the plane comes in contact with the ground.

delete

Pretty sure those marks on his license are from the ever elusive "Bootjack marmot fickle hoot nanny"They are about knee high and only give you about 3-5 hours lay time before they take your wallet nibble on the wing fabric and then piss off.Brutal little things only found on the East side,most often sighted in the mid afternoon near 10 to 12,000ft peaks

low rider wrote:Pretty sure those marks on his license are from the ever elusive "Bootjack marmot fickle hoot nanny"They are about knee high and only give you about 3-5 hours lay time before they take your wallet nibble on the wing fabric and then piss off.Brutal little things only found on the East side,most often sighted in the mid afternoon near 10 to 12,000ft peaks

ya but only when theres 8 to 14kts of wind though right? Otherwise it's Manbearpig.

Actually the "Bootjack Marmot fickle Hoot Nanny" can strike when there is no wind,"Unfrozen Caveman Lawyer" usually strikes in the zone you described. Although it is not uncommon for one to spot a lone hiker on a mountain and mumble into your headset"hey watch this"No one will ever know

Tadpole wrote:

low rider wrote:Pretty sure those marks on his license are from the ever elusive "Bootjack marmot fickle hoot nanny"They are about knee high and only give you about 3-5 hours lay time before they take your wallet nibble on the wing fabric and then piss off.Brutal little things only found on the East side,most often sighted in the mid afternoon near 10 to 12,000ft peaks

ya but only when theres 8 to 14kts of wind though right? Otherwise it's Manbearpig.

You guys can't be totally serial, can you?

I just wish he had done something obviously stupid so I could avoid it. As it is, I gotta add another 1000 feet when I cross those Sierras cuz I know the boogey man lives there and he's after guys like Steve, Sparky and Berk.

Or... Fly another 1000 feet lower so the downdrafts can't push you any closer to the rock because you're already there!!! I like waving "up" at the cars and people as I fly through the passes.

Gump

Yellowbelly wrote:I just wish he had done something obviously stupid so I could avoid it. As it is, I gotta add another 1000 feet when I cross those Sierras cuz I know the boogey man lives there and he's after guys like Steve, Sparky and Berk.

I wouldn't rule out stupid just yet. On pretty good authority I tell you the guy that was flying just before him did a pretty good show before coming back to land.
Me has always suspected ol'e super stick wanted to be away from the crowd and do a little Decathlon practice before returning to the ranch so he wasn't out done by the old pro before him.
And if any of you know who that was, I wont say, you would know Steve couldn't have out flown him, but he did land much shorter.

Yeah but why would you go all the way down to Mammoth to do any of that? There's all that flat land closer to where he departed. I doubt we'll ever know what happened. Does anyone know exactly where the crash site is in relation to the town...I was surprised to hear it was that far south and I have doubts as to his reason for the flight. I mean how could he be looking for a site to set a new land record. Isn't that pretty well established as to where the best sites are. Maybe he just wanted to go flying. We've all gotten that urge to just fly around aimlessly in the back country. And doubt there's any flat land record sites any where near mammoth....

Mauleaviator wrote:

Desert185 wrote:From Mauleaviator:

I don't get the argument about the weather? Any of us who has truly flown the Sierra's knows that it can be brutal for minutes and calm for minutes and then right back to brutal. I have gone from 138 MPH to 80MPH and then back to 140 mph just to keep my head from hitting the top of the cabin. To say the weather was calm where you happened to be is pointless chatter.

Seems it could go either way .

My point exactly Reading comprehension is not one of your strengths?

Enough to know when I'm dealing with a social ignoramus.

I am not sure how many of you know how extreme the downdrafts can be on the east side of the Sierras, but there has been recorded sink in excess of 6000' fpm both near Mammoth, Bishop, and Lone Pine. Not even a Lear 24 can outclimb that, which is one of the aircraft reporting that back in '94.

I just found out that the original search tapes show search-aircraft flew over Fossett's crash site 19 TIMES!!!! Never found him. Makes ya think.

Even in a 30,000 lb tanker with LOTS of reserve power, empty, we get the crap beat out of us flying fires on the east-side, to the point of calling it off many times. No one likes being there when Mother Nature is unleashing high winds no matter what is burning up. When you see 3" round sticks and 2x2' pieces of plywood tossed up in the air by a fire, then getting slammed down by the East side downdrafts, it humbles you. Thank God you are wearing a helmet and hopefully exercising good judgment with a good exit.

Bottom line, you pilots who fly the Sierras regularly know it can be smooth one second, and get slammed the next. I never cross the Sierras thinking I am going to make it all the way across, I consider it a privilege.

iceman wrote:Does anyone know exactly where the crash site is in relation to the town...I was surprised to hear it was that far south and I have doubts as to his reason for the flight.

According to the coordinates given earlier on this thread:

My Google map of Fossett's crash site

The top pin is the Flying M, the bottom pin is his crash site. He was aways away.