I've just started flying again after a long time out of the cockpit (19 years since I've been current). The plan is to get current and my tailwheel endorsement at the same time, but I'm not racing the Hobbs meter. I'll get it when I get it. I'm really enjoying it, and the Citabria is a cool little plane. I've had two lessons, and things are going fairly well, though I realize that the rust will take a few more hours to remove completely. My question is when does using the rudders become second nature? Other than a handful of glider tows, all of my time is in nosewheel a/c, so I probably never did learn to use the rudders properly. But my rudder control is awful, and I just don't have that seat of the pants feeling for it yet. I'm hoping things click soon, but it's frustrating to look down and see the ball way out of center when I think I'm somewhat coordinated! On the plus side, basic flying skills are returning, and my two landings so far have been decent.

Keep at it! More than likely it'll come when you least expect it. No way to put hours on it... when it happens it happens and man is it a glorious feeling when you become one with the airplane.

Muscle memory is funny. It's never quite right when you are articulating the process but there's no way to get there BUT to articulate each piece of what you are doing while you learn the actions and responses. It will come and you'll really be there when those actions are filed so firmly in your muscle memory that you are no longer able to even say exactly what you are doing. One of those things when someone asks exactly how you are managing that rudder and you have to watch your own feet just to see exactly what you are doing with the darn rudder anyway. A Citabria sounds like a great place to pick up flying again and a wonderful tail dragger to mess with. Have fun!

It comes. One thing I'll never forget was something Sparky wrote about rudder control while on the ground. It was to the effect of "don't hold it. Make your input and return to neutral."

It's easy to over control by holding rudder inputs too long, and then swerving occurs.

Cross controlling for crosswind inputs is another story altogether. Practice!

Remember the BALL...keep the ball centered. Relax (easier to say than do) and keep the BALL centered ( your BUTT should tell you).
Now crosswind landings are different...keep the plane centered on the runway ( your eyes are centered, your BUTT is hanging out).
Practice playing with the rudder when you are turning, climbing, decending, power on , power off..get your BUTT loosened up.
Eventually you EYES and your BUTT finally get the hang of it and the BALL will hang in there where it is suppose to be.
HC

I can't say how long it will take you, I can only relate my own similar story. I had about 1000 hrs. TT with all of 15 in a J3 so along with most 1000 hour pilots, and teenagers, I figured I knew everything. The guy I was flying a Navajo for bought a brand spanking new Cessna 185 so I grabbed the other pilot who was also flying for the same company and out to the airport we go. He had more tailwheel time and as I remember more TT than I did. I am sure glad the runway was 10,000 feet long and 200 wide because I used every inch of it. In both directions.
Kind of like my golf game, I believe in using the whole course. I payed for it after all.
I staggered that 185 into the air over runway lights, scared the gophers along with the other pilot and generally wore out the tires. Never did hit the dirt though. Then about the 5th or 6th time around the pattern it all clicked. I was on the centerline and could start concentrating on short, spot landings since the "strip" we would be using was an old asphalt storage area that was about 900 feet long and had a useful width of maybe 50 ft.
Oh yeah, it had a built in 20 degree crosswind too.
So, the moral of the story is...hell, I don't know. Just keep all the good tips in mind and you will get it.
I enjoyed that 185, flew it for maybe another 100 hours before leaving that job. I later heard the high time pilot/mechanic they hired stalled it about 10 seconds too early one day and hit just short of the asphalt area, everybody got out ok but the airplane needed some major work.

Try doing Dutch rolls. Try rolling the length of the runway alternating from left to both to right main tire (tailwheel off the ground). Do both of these exercises regularly and you will develop a feel for the rudder.

Yeah...dutch rolls, lots of dutch rolls until they are smooth and second nature. Remember when the stick is in motion you should be making rudder input in the same direction. When the stick is not in motion, rudder should center the ball. Pay attention to how it feels when the plane is coordinated. Get your instructor to let you fly from the back seat...the yaw will be more noticeable from the back seat and allow you to get a feel for it. Learn to land it from back there too and you will be a better pilot for it.

PA12_Pilot wrote:.... Try rolling the length of the runway alternating from left to both to right main tire (tailwheel off the ground). Do both of these exercises regularly and you will develop a feel for the rudder.

I'd be afraid of getting a feel for the ditch-- I prefer to do my dutch-rolling in the air.

hotrod150 wrote:

PA12_Pilot wrote:.... Try rolling the length of the runway alternating from left to both to right main tire (tailwheel off the ground). Do both of these exercises regularly and you will develop a feel for the rudder.

I'd be afraid of getting a feel for the ditch-- I prefer to do my dutch-rolling in the air.

One wheel take offs with partial power, and one wheel landings should be a part of every tail dragged pilots training.....That said, the right wheel then left, then right is a great exercise, but only with VERY light to no wind, right down the runway. If you're instructing in these things and not doing these exercises, you should build these into your syllabus.

MTV

PA12_Pilot wrote:Try doing Dutch rolls. Try rolling the length of the runway alternating from left to both to right main tire (tailwheel off the ground). Do both of these exercises regularly and you will develop a feel for the rudder.

The benefits of practicing dutch rolls (rolling on point) I feel, is under rated. Start high in the sky. Slowly work your way up to 45 bank angle. keeping the ball in the center. once the rolls gets going, most planes lead strongly with the rudder. After practicing back and forth for a while, turn the dutch roll into a turn, either direction, (check traffic) you will be surprised how well you can soon keep the ball in the center , even with aggressive turns. When your feeling confident, then go down low on the wheels.
Another great exercise is drawing shapes in the sky with the nose. Using elevator and rudder. Use a little aileron to keep wings level at the time of rudder input, Your goal is to eventually anticipate required inputs and be less dependent on reactivity. Start out with squares (easy) then do triangles and circles. Try this at different speeds. Slow and higher angles of attack, p factor will be more pronounced.

Taildragger, I hate your guts,
I have the license, ratings and such.
But to make you go straight is driving me nuts.
With hours of teaching and the controls in my clutch.
It takes a little rudder, easy, that's too much.

You see, I learned to fly in a trycycle gear
with one up front and two in the rear.
She was sleek and clean and easy to steer
But this miserasble thing with tires ans struts
Takes a little rudder, easy, that's too much.

It demands your attention on the take-off roll
or it heads towards Jone's as you pour on the coal.
Gotta hang loose, don't over control.

This wicked little plane is just too much.
With a lot of zigzagging and words obscene
I think I've mastered this slippery machine
It's not that bad if you have the touch
Just a little rudder, easy, that's too much.

I relax for a second and from the corner of my eye,
I suddenly realize with a gasp and a cry
That's my own tail that's going by.
You grounding looping wreck; I hate your guts,
Give a little rudder, Great Scott, THAT'S TOO MUCH.

Author unknown

Well, dutch rolls are on the menu for Sunday. I know the rudder will click, I'm just impatient. Thanks for the the tips, info, and even a poem!

-Chris

tcj wrote:Taildragger, I hate your guts,
I have the license, ratings and such.
But to make you go straight is driving me nuts.
With hours of teaching and the controls in my clutch.
It takes a little rudder, easy, that's too much.

You see, I learned to fly in a trycycle gear
with one up front and two in the rear.
She was sleek and clean and easy to steer
But this miserasble thing with tires ans struts
Takes a little rudder, easy, that's too much.

It demands your attention on the take-off roll
or it heads towards Jone's as you pour on the coal.
Gotta hang loose, don't over control.

This wicked little plane is just too much.
With a lot of zigzagging and words obscene
I think I've mastered this slippery machine
It's not that bad if you have the touch
Just a little rudder, easy, that's too much.

I relax for a second and from the corner of my eye,
I suddenly realize with a gasp and a cry
That's my own tail that's going by.
You grounding looping wreck; I hate your guts,
Give a little rudder, Great Scott, THAT'S TOO MUCH.

Author unknown

I remembered this poem...just couldn't remember where to find it.

Another good rudder exercise is a falling leaf, but trying to keep the "leaf" from oscillating very much. Hold the stick all the way back in your gut while in a power-off stall, don't move it at all, and control the airplane strictly with the rudders. Initially you'll oscillate back and forth a lot, but as you get better at not over-controlling, you'll be able to keep it pretty level.

Then after you've gotten good at it without power, try it with power. It's a whole new ball game, so be prepared to recover from an unexpected spin entry!

Cary

Cary wrote:Another good rudder exercise is a falling leaf, but trying to keep the "leaf" from oscillating very much. Hold the stick all the way back in your gut while in a power-off stall, don't move it at all, and control the airplane strictly with the rudders. Initially you'll oscillate back and forth a lot, but as you get better at not over-controlling, you'll be able to keep it pretty level.

Then after you've gotten good at it without power, try it with power. It's a whole new ball game, so be prepared to recover from an unexpected spin entry!

Cary

Agreed, this is a great exercise. I think it's better done with an instructor in the back (or a trusted tw pilot) to hold the stick while you stay hands-off on the stick. Keep those wings level and try to stay out of the spin.

Zzz wrote:

Cary wrote:Another good rudder exercise is a falling leaf, but trying to keep the "leaf" from oscillating very much. Hold the stick all the way back in your gut while in a power-off stall, don't move it at all, and control the airplane strictly with the rudders. Initially you'll oscillate back and forth a lot, but as you get better at not over-controlling, you'll be able to keep it pretty level.

Then after you've gotten good at it without power, try it with power. It's a whole new ball game, so be prepared to recover from an unexpected spin entry!

Cary

Agreed, this is a great exercise. I think it's better done with an instructor in the back (or a trusted tw pilot) to hold the stick while you stay hands-off on the stick. Keep those wings level and try to stay out of the spin.

It's a lot of fun power on too.

Cary wrote:Another good rudder exercise is a falling leaf, but trying to keep the "leaf" from oscillating very much.

Cary

We did these last lesson too. Good fun, but I did let the wing drop a few times. I think my problem right now is that I'm trying too hard to keep the ball centered, so I'm chasing the ball. Fixating doesn't work. Gotta hang loose, don't over control...

If it's any consolation it's not all your fault, nor is it really the rudder's fault. All Citabrias, from the Champ on up, have a gawd-awful amount of adverse yaw so it'll take you awhile to get used to going around corners holding the stick in the wrong direction to keep the ball where it's supposed to be. As advised already - Dutch Rolls will get you used to it quicker than anything else. It all boils down to stick time, practice makes perfect.

Agreed, this is a great exercise. I think it's better done with an instructor in the back (or a trusted tw pilot) to hold the stick while you stay hands-off on the stick. Keep those wings level and try to stay out of the spin

I think its better that the trusted friend or instructor hold a taser, and use it if you try moving the stick (wheel). You wanna break any bad habits early.