Anyone know anything about these? Apparently the Legend Cub people are bringing out something called a "Super Legend." Looks like it will fit somewhere between the Carbon Cub and the J3/Champish LSAs. They claim Supercub performance but their website isn't very well organized. I couldn't find any performance specs and it wasn't clear if it is a factory build only or is available as a kit.

While I'd really like a Scout or Husky, the more I think about it, I really like the idea of giving the big middle finger to the whole medical issue. If anyone knows anything about the Legend, I'd appreciate your input. Currently trying to decide between Carbon Cub, Rans S7, Savage Cub and now Legend. While there a big difference in cost between those aircraft, and cost is always important, it won't be the sole deciding factor. Performance, factory support, safety record, payload, creature conforts, etc. are all more important.

Best,
O-2

O-2, I have a very light pa18-115hp with no electrics and flaps, it performs very nice with a 0-235 Lyc which is what the super lengend is. You should consider a Rans S7 that a friend of mine has built in Florida, i think it is on Barnstormers for 65K brrand new with the 40 hours flown off. Jim has built 5-6 Rans and really enjoys them and does a nice job building. He does it for a hobby, not a money making venture. It will out do most all the cubs except the carbon cub for a fraction of the cost.

I think Plane and Pilot recently did a short write up on it. Maybe the September or October issue. Seems to be their basic cub with the O-233 (i think), flaps, and extra cargo room. Might be a small change to the wing as well. I'll take a look tonight. Can't seem to find it online. Seems like a nice middle ground between the light pseudo-cubs and a Super-Cub.

O2,
I seem to remember picking up literature at Oshkosh on it. If I can find it when I get home I will scan it and send it. I do remember that it looked like a nice option in amongst all the other 'bush' types. Having said this I did buy an older S-7 and also have a Champ that has the O-235 in it. The Champ flies and feels more like a bigger plane compared to the almost kite like flying' of the S-7. Do not take this as a dis on the RANS...it is a blast to fly. It just doesn't have that 'substantial' feel to it as does the Champ.' But guess which of the two is for sale....the Champ. Only because I could not find amphibs for it whereas I was easily able to find them for the RANS. The S-7 is a very sporty flying plane. Might want to take a look at the one 185 Bushbird is suggesting.

I ferried an 0-200 powered Legend Cub from here in central TX to Tucson a couple of years ago. It had the open cylinder cowling (a little slower than closed) and the nice clam shell doors on both sides. It had no flaps, but frankly didn't need them. I could land and take off in very short distances without resorting to any heroics. With practice and if it wasn't a customers aircraft, I think I could get pretty impressive results. The LC is also available with the Jabaru engine (115 HP and less LBS too) for even better performance, range and economy (Important because its range with the 0-200 is only about 350 miles). The detail work wasn't perfect, but it was decent and the plane was a hoot to fly. I flew most of the way with both doors open at about 100' AGL. I only climbed up for congested areas (El Paso and Tucson) and a couple of short cuts over mountains. I would buy one if I had the scratch. I'd go for the Jabaru.

185 Bushbird wrote:O-2, I have a very light pa18-115hp with no electrics and flaps, it performs very nice with a 0-235 Lyc which is what the super lengend is. You should consider a Rans S7 that a friend of mine has built in Florida, i think it is on Barnstormers for 65K brrand new with the 40 hours flown off. Jim has built 5-6 Rans and really enjoys them and does a nice job building. He does it for a hobby, not a money making venture. It will out do most all the cubs except the carbon cub for a fraction of the cost.

Bush, do you have a link? I may be the only one, but the way Barnstormers is "organized" is impossible for me to wrap my feeble mind around. I search for "Rans S7" and get T28s.

Best,
O-2

Not sure if I can make a link either. Go to Barnstormers, scroll down to experimental, then scroll down to Rans. There is a 2007 model for $69K. Its the only one I found on the site.
Actually the S-7 I just bought looks nearly identical to this one.
http://barnstormers.com/listing_images.php?id=606673
I believe this is the one Brian is refering to. I did a search for "Rans S-7"
RANS S-7 • $59,900 • FOR SALE BY BUILDER • 2011 Rans S-7 Taildragger, Rotax 912 100 HP, 40 Hr TTAC & engine, Soft Start, Warp Drive prop, VSI, Bendix King AV80R GPS, Transponder, 760 Comm, Pneumatic tailwheel, 700 lbs empty weight, Great light sport or platform for floats. This is the 5th, S-7, that I have built. • Contact JAMES R. SCHILLING, Owner - located OCKLAWAHA, FL USA • Telephone: 1-352-625-1852 • Posted November 23, 2011
http://barnstormers.com/listing_images.php?id=601201

WWhunter wrote:Not sure if I can make a link either. Go to Barnstormers, scroll down to experimental, then scroll down to Rans. There is a 2007 model for $69K. Its the only one I found on the site.
Actually the S-7 I just bought looks nearly identical to this one.
http://barnstormers.com/listing_images.php?id=606673
I believe this is the one Brian is refering to. I did a search for "Rans S-7"
RANS S-7 • $59,900 • FOR SALE BY BUILDER • 2011 Rans S-7 Taildragger, Rotax 912 100 HP, 40 Hr TTAC & engine, Soft Start, Warp Drive prop, VSI, Bendix King AV80R GPS, Transponder, 760 Comm, Pneumatic tailwheel, 700 lbs empty weight, Great light sport or platform for floats. This is the 5th, S-7, that I have built. • Contact JAMES R. SCHILLING, Owner - located OCKLAWAHA, FL USA • Telephone: 1-352-625-1852 • Posted November 23, 2011
http://barnstormers.com/listing_images.php?id=601201

WWhunter,

Thanks! I did find the first on, but the second one you linked to did not come up on my search.

Best,
O-2

[quote][I really like the idea of giving the big middle finger to the whole medical issue./quote]

EAA and AOPA are working on a proposal to have the medical standards of LSA applied to all aircraft up to 180 HP. This would allow alot of pilots to keep many of their airframes. I would continue to fly my Maule but would be limited to 2 persons total onboard and no night flying. Works for me. When I go camping I usually have 2 plus camping gear ( alot of camping gear, I like to be comfy ) anyway.

That S-7 looks like a long-tail Pre-S model. Nice planes - I had a similar on before my current S model.

Not sure about the Super Legend, but I just swapped my 26" ABW's for 29"s that a guy had on a Legend cub. After spending a day with him, flying, both comparing notes, speeds (cruise and slow flight), COSTs, etc, he's probably now going to sell his Legend and have a guy I referred him too build him a brand new S-7S with the new long tanks, larger panel, new aero-servo ailerons, etc. for LESS than his Legend cost used. Granted, it will be registered E-LSA, but he gets to make it how he wants it...exactly how he want's it.

Of course, I am biased I guess. But...

Um, the Legend aircraft can also be licensed as E-LSA, by the way. That's a paperwork change.

I looked at the "Super Legend" at OSH. It looked pretty nice. They hadn't flown the engine yet at that point, and were still in very preliminary stages.

They said the first group of buyers to plunk down a down payment on them could have one for $139 K.

I didn't sign up.

MTV

100% correct MTV. I wasn't very clear - I know a professional builder speciallizing in S-7's specifically that is very affordable, that has a complete S-7 build center that will help build 95% of the plane, to your spec, for LESS than to simply go buy a USED Legend.

TomKatz wrote:

[I really like the idea of giving the big middle finger to the whole medical issue./quote]
EAA and AOPA are working on a proposal to have the medical standards of LSA applied to all aircraft up to 180 HP. .....

Not strictly correct-- I think a more precise way to put it is that the proposal would be to state that a drivers license in leiu of a 3rd class medical can be used to exercise recreational pilot privileges. Aircraft limitations: up to 180hp & 4 seats (but only a single passenger), no retract or c/s prop.

hotrod150 wrote:

TomKatz wrote:

[I really like the idea of giving the big middle finger to the whole medical issue./quote]
EAA and AOPA are working on a proposal to have the medical standards of LSA applied to all aircraft up to 180 HP. .....

Not strictly correct-- I think a more precise way to put it is that the proposal would be to state that a drivers license in leiu of a 3rd class medical can be used to exercise recreational pilot privileges. Aircraft limitations: up to 180hp & 4 seats (but only a single passenger), no retract or c/s prop.

I think the medical requirement for "non-commercial" operations should be done away with altogether. That said, I am very pessemistic about it even being relaxed this far.

best,
O-2

emflys wrote:100% correct MTV. I wasn't very clear - I know a professional builder speciallizing in S-7's specifically that is very affordable, that has a complete S-7 build center that will help build 95% of the plane, to your spec, for LESS than to simply go buy a USED Legend.

If I were to go the Rans route, I like this idea. I don't have the time or the space to build it myself, but I really like some of the mods Swingle is doing on his next one. That said, the Rans is only on the list because of the videos you and Swingle and Courier Guy posted. I've never actually seen one up close and there don't seem to be a lot in my corner of the world. I corresponded a bit with a guy up on the eastern shore of Maryland, but it's a pretty good treck for me and we never got together.

My reservation is what WWHunter posted about it being "kite-like" in it's handling. Not to knock anyone, but it may be a bit too "ultralighty" for my personal taste. I really wish there was one close by!

best,
O-2

hotrod150 wrote:

TomKatz wrote:

[I really like the idea of giving the big middle finger to the whole medical issue./quote]
EAA and AOPA are working on a proposal to have the medical standards of LSA applied to all aircraft up to 180 HP. .....

Not strictly correct-- I think a more precise way to put it is that the proposal would be to state that a drivers license in leiu of a 3rd class medical can be used to exercise recreational pilot privileges. Aircraft limitations: up to 180hp & 4 seats (but only a single passenger), no retract or c/s prop.

I am under the impression that there is no limitation on c/s prop for the private pilot operating under the drivers license standard, just HP = or < 180, retract gear, and one passenger. The 50 mi radius is not a limitation for the private pilot rating operating on the new driver's license recreational standard proposal.

O-2,
Let me try to reword my 'kite-like' flying qualities of the S-7. It is a very responsive plane and has a light wing loading compared to what I normally fly. Normally I fly an O-235 powered Champ and a 172. Both of these are what I call typical handling or feeling aircraft. This light wing loading of the S-7, as you can imagine, makes for a real bouncy ride in turbulence or windy conditions. I would and have flown the 172 in some pretty fierce winds/crosswinds. The Champ I have also flown in some pretty nasty situations but definitely try to limit the crosswind landings to less than 15 mph with 10 mph being a non issue. I recently landed the S-7 in close to a 25 mph crosswind and I only did so because I had to. I had flown to a friends quite a distance from home and on my return the winds picked up considerably. I was cruising full throttle at a whopping 65 mph and getting tossed around pretty good. I actually had one hand on a crossbar to hang on for a bit. Luckily when I got back to my strip the winds were deminishing. I landed fast and without flaps. I got below the treetops and out of the real nasty winds using most of my available runway doing so. The plane handled it wonderfully and I was in one piece.
I really like the S-7 and the performance is top notch. After I get more time in it I will probably feel much more comfortable in rough conditions.

I had planned on bringing the Rans over to Ft. Meade on my stay over there this winter but decided against it. I may fly it over there next summer and if so I will have to get in touch with you so you can have a chance to look one over. It is an older 'short-tail' and from what I have heard and read the newer long tail is less 'squirrely'. Although I don't consider it squirrely, just what a couple of friends have said about its handling compared to what they fly.
Keith

WWHunter:

I'd like to see the Rans if you bring it next summer. I probably won't do anything for a bit because while I doubt the relaxing of the medical requirement cited by TomKatz and others will happen (the LSA manufacturers and AMEs must be lobbying hard against it) it's probably worth a wait and see. The problem with going LSA until we know for sure is LSA's are, by definition, nearly new. That means big money and if the regs are changed I imagine the resale value won't be much - why buy a Legend when you can get a Supercub, Husky, or Scout for far less money and have better performance, payload, and all around safety?

On the other hand, if someone really believes this will pass, now may be the time to buy one of those planes as I'll bet it drives prices higher.

Best,
O-2

WWHunter:

I'd like to see the Rans if you bring it next summer. I probably won't do anything for a bit because while I doubt the relaxing of the medical requirement cited by TomKatz and others will happen (the LSA manufacturers and AMEs must be lobbying hard against it) it's probably worth a wait and see. The problem with going LSA until we know for sure is LSA's are, by definition, nearly new. That means big money and if the regs are changed I imagine the resale value won't be much - why buy a Legend when you can get a Supercub, Husky, or Scout for far less money and have better performance, payload, and all around safety?

On the other hand, if someone really believes this will pass, now may be the time to buy one of those planes as I'll bet it drives prices higher.

Best,
O-2

O2,

I would just dedicate your effort to finding an S7 ride. I am sure there is someone around you - got to the Rans S7 Courier Yahoo group, join and just post your request. Or also go to the Ransclan.com google map, and look for yellow flags for S7's. I see that Rick McBride is at HEY, Warrenton, VA. His was one of the amazing S7's totaled at Sun n Fun by the Tornado, and just got it back from Rans with all the upgrades. I understand WWHunters comments on the responsive handling. It's a lighter airplane. Mine is 726 empty. But it is ANYTHING but "Ultralight" feeling. Its a real plane. When I fly with cub guys who are unfamiliar with it, and skeptical at the start of the day, usually have a different opinion of the plane by the end of our adventures when they see what it can do....with 1/2 the fuel (cost)

Here's the map: http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msa=0&msid=117084823927764043041.00046b88e0e173ec2f0a6&ie=UTF8&ll=42.290294,-83.406379&spn=40.504473,84.287109&z=4

Regarding medicals, re-sale values, etc., I doubt that loosening of the medicals would really hurt resale values for LSA's much. As you mention, they are NEW planes. They are, yes, lighter, but they are also more economical to operate. I fly faster than a cub, at 1/2 the fuel burn. Yes, I don't have quite the range (although the new S7's do) or payload. I don't think that has really hindered me in any practical way. That may not be the case for all.

But I highly doubt that resale values of any planes - LSA's or Simple certifieds would be appreciably affected by a change in medical regs. There might be a few less LSA's sold/re-sold, yes. But I don't think the actual supply/demand ratio's will be affected enough that it should be a factor in your decision. Payload, performance, price, cost of operation, etc. yes.

But what do I know!!