I'm pretty old-school, not computer oriented, and for me computers are usually not user friendly. That said, I'm interested in stepping up a bit more into the electronic age. I have a Garmin 196 GPS which I've had for 8 or 10 years, it works well for me & I just had the database updated this year so I'm good to go for actual navigation. What I'd like to get is an ipad or similar device, with a sectional-based moving map display. I don't plan to use it for actual "direct-to" navigation (that's what the 196 is for), but for airport information, situational awareness, and real-time weather & TFR info. I've talked to some people who had what appeared to be what I'm after, only to find out that their wx & TFR info is obtained via wifi or wireless internet so might not always be real time, esp over remote areas.

I don't really want to spend a fortune, luckily pad devices are available pretty cheaply so the app's are the big variable. There's free app's, app's for sale, plus add-ons like "pucks", "blueteeth", etc. Not my gig so I don't really know what's good, what's bad, what's necessary, and what's not.

I was hoping that there might be a seminar on this stuff at the NW Aviation Conference in february, but their website looks like it's just gonna be the same old "flying companion" & "mountain flying" etc etc presentations. The vendor's booths are usually mobbed by attendees so I doubt I'll be able to get much useful info there either.

Any thoughts?

I am competent with computers and electronic devices but do not like or enjoy them as some do.

With that said I've had an iPad for a little over a year and ForeFlight and I'd never go back.

I would recommend this combination

You'd be able to make ForeFlight work excellently for you if you sit on the couch some rainy day and read through it's on line manual and play with it. Some peeople don't need to and can just yell 'Clear prop' and go but a couple hours with it at home were helpful for me.

I loathe computers, and their associated mandatory updating requirements. An ipad is the first device I've had that doesn't need constant babysitting. As mentioned, foreflight on your ipad is an excellent combo. GET LOTS OF MEMORY, this will insure the quiet enjoyment of letting the thing self rescue itself during its' infrequent updates. Workarounds due to limited memory can make it feel like the un-fun, needy, microsoft dependant devices we all know and hate.

hotrod180 wrote:I've talked to some people who had what appeared to be what I'm after, only to find out that their wx & TFR info is obtained via wifi or wireless internet so might not always be real time, esp over remote areas.

Unfortunately, I think this is literally the only way you're going to get both wx and TFR updates.

Unless you spend a little money and buy an iPad, subscribe to ForeFlight, and buy a Stratus which will allow you to get weather info over the ADS-B towers. But I don't think they receive TFR updates over the ADS-B.

I run an OLD iPad with ForeFlight and bought a $100 external gps receiver (like I said, it's an OOOLD iPad and I was dropping gps signal frequently). This gets me weather and TFR update info through the cell towers if I'm low enough and over a semi-populated area (though I've been surprised at where I can get signal a few times).

Or you can get a much newer Garmin and subscribe to XM weather. That's satellite-based. I don't think that they shoot TFR data over that though.

I will say that in my experience MOST TFRs are dropped far enough in advance that unless you're planning a week-long camping trip your update before you lost cell service is probably still good. Or you can buy a sat phone and call somebody to check updates for you.

Yep, what you need is an iPad with Foreflight. I've been running Foreflight on the same 64gb iPad 2 for at least 5 years without issue.

I recently just bought a stratus 2 for inflight ADS-B traffic/weather and synthetic vision. Pretty cool stuff

The FAA ADS-B facts page says TFRs updates are available thought ADS-B. If that is true I don't know.

whee wrote:The FAA ADS-B facts page says TFRs updates are available thought ADS-B. If that is true I don't know.

That's good to know. I'm planning on building one of those home-built stratus thingies next year.

Go to ipadpilotnews.com and watch the iPad 101 Webinar. That should get you started. The page is run by Sporty's, FYI.

Direct link: http://ipadpilotnews.com/2014/01/flying ... idebarlink

hotrod180 wrote:I'm pretty old-school, not computer oriented, and for me computers are usually not user friendly. That said, I'm interested in stepping up a bit more into the electronic age. I have a Garmin 196 GPS which I've had for 8 or 10 years, it works well for me & I just had the database updated this year so I'm good to go for actual navigation. What I'd like to get is an ipad or similar device, with a sectional-based moving map display. I don't plan to use it for actual "direct-to" navigation (that's what the 196 is for), but for airport information, situational awareness, and real-time weather & TFR info. I've talked to some people who had what appeared to be what I'm after, only to find out that their wx & TFR info is obtained via wifi or wireless internet so might not always be real time, esp over remote areas.

I don't really want to spend a fortune, luckily pad devices are available pretty cheaply so the app's are the big variable. There's free app's, app's for sale, plus add-ons like "pucks", "blueteeth", etc. Not my gig so I don't really know what's good, what's bad, what's necessary, and what's not.

I was hoping that there might be a seminar on this stuff at the NW Aviation Conference in february, but their website looks like it's just gonna be the same old "flying companion" & "mountain flying" etc etc presentations. The vendor's booths are usually mobbed by attendees so I doubt I'll be able to get much useful info there either.

Any thoughts?

Get an Ipad mini, the latest greatest! Biggest memory (128) Get a stratus11, You will throw the garmin away after a couple of flights with foreflight or wingX. I use both!
Have fun
Note to get the internal GPS you have to get the one that has phone data package, you just don't need to use the data part.
With the Stratus there is no need to get the more expensive one as the Stratus has the GPS in it.

I have the iPad mini with GarminPilot and GDL39 for free weather. Couldn't be happier although Foreflight and WingX are also terrific programs. I tried all three and decided on GarminPilot. Very user friendly. I would also get the iPad with GPS.

The above post is key... Only cellular capable (more expensive) iPads have an internal GPS for your moving map. Like said, cell service need not be activated, it's just those that happen have internal GPS.

There are a few other ways to provide GPS signal to a non cellular capable iPad though, such as a stratus (I or II) or a bad elf, etc.

I get TFR's via a satellite XM weather subscription on a Garmin 396. That is the only reason I maintain the subscription. Since I live in Northern Nevada and fly across some pretty remote country, it is the only practical solution right now. ADSB might work if I got up around 10k, but what's the fun in that? I'm looking forward to trying ADSB-In before long, to see what the coverage is in the 7k altitude range; I'd drop XM in a heart beat if ADSB has coverage where I need it. Cell coverage is too sparse or non existent. For that matter, I'm rarely able to reach Flight Watch or FSS by radio so pretty much cut-off from information sources without XM.

The TFR display on the 396 has kept me out active TFR's about once a year, especially during fire season when they pop-up like weeds around the west. It kept Pops and I out of one TFR. After a weekend at the Chicken Strip, we popped over to Lone Pine for breakfast at the Alabama Hills Cafe. Turns out an F-16 had just augured in just south of town and the TFR came right to the edge of the airport.

XM weather is great in the Idaho backcountry, and makes planning around weather much easier when we've been out of cell coverage for a few days or longer. It has certainly gotten us home and to destinations when nothing would have worked. I hate to pay for XM, but for $36 per month, it is cheap insurance considering how often I use it, how many times it has kept me out of TFR's, and how many times it allowed me get to a destination by planning around weather when no other sources were available.

It's not perfect however, weather radar coverage is pretty sparse or non-existent in some areas. I've run into solid walls of IMC where the radar looked clear. That's not XM's fault but just a general observation about radar coverage.

I like the size of the iPad mini

I will tenth or eleventh suggest an I Pad Mini. I use mine with cellular data activated, and can get weather and TFRs via ForeFlight. That said, obviously if you're too high (like that happens) or in places with no cell coverage, you're going to drop weather.

By the same token, ADS-B coverage is only guaranteed if you're more than 6000 agl. Now, there are a LOT of places where you can get ADS-B weather and TFR data much lower than that. BUT, get into the western mountains and ADS-B coverage down low sucks. And, it's when you're down low IN weather where you REALLY want that weather, after all.

Frankly, a good old Garmin 396/496 or a newer 510/560 with an XM Weather subscription is still the ONLY way I know of to receive reliable, consistent weather and TFR data IN THE MOUNTAINS. The down side, of course is that the subscription to XM Weather is $35 a month. Good news is for something like $6 more you can also get XM radio in your plane......

I've used the I Pad with Foreflight for two years now. No ADS-B. For nearly $1000 bucks for an ADS-B receiver like the Stratus, I'd buy a Garmin 510 (if I couldn't find a good shape 496) and get an XM subscription. I may still do that, and keep the I Pad as back up and for use when I arrive.

MTV

As others have said, XM is the only reliable way to get weather and TFR information in the backcountry. Granted, sometimes that weather data is subpar, but it's going to be subpar for everyone regardless of how they access it.

An Ipad running any flight planning software is just shy of useless without an internet connection...you can measure distances and get bearings, but you can do that on any GPS, for free. So with an Ipad you get to pay for the cellular service (plus pay for ForeFlight or system XXX...they don't give it away...I think ForeFlight is a dollar a day), or only use the Ipad with a wifi connection (still paying for ForeFlight or whatever)...not exactly backcountry, and NO cheaper than paying for XM weather, which actually works in the backcountry. And if you choose to pay for the cellular service, it's worthless in the bush. I pert-near never have cellular service in the backcountry, or much of the Western frontcountry for that matter, whether flying or on the ground.

Ipads and ForeFlight work great in the cellular-serviced parts of the world (providing you have a cellular plan), but are of little value in the backcountry. I would buy a Garmin XXX gps with XM weather long before I would invest in an Ipad and flight planning software.

Disclaimer: I have both...Cellular serviced Ipad with a ForeFlight subscription and XM weather on a Garmin 696. I've gotten used to paying the bills so I keep them, but I'd drop the Ipad in a heart beat if I had to choose between the two. NO comparison for usefulness in the airplane. the Ipad works sometimes, the XM works all the time.

One of the things I like about the tablet option is the moving map is a sectional. I don't know why but I like it that way. It would be pretty sweet if there was a xm device you could plug into a tablet and get xm weather with whatever app you are using.

Hammer wrote:So with an Ipad you get to pay for the cellular service (plus pay for ForeFlight or system XXX...they don't give it away...I think ForeFlight is a dollar a day),

Man, you need to call Foreflight....there are a LOT better prices than that unless you think you need synthetic vision, etc.

MTV

mtv wrote:

Hammer wrote:So with an Ipad you get to pay for the cellular service (plus pay for ForeFlight or system XXX...they don't give it away...I think ForeFlight is a dollar a day),

Man, you need to call Foreflight....there are a LOT better prices than that unless you think you need synthetic vision, etc.

MTV

Basic subscription is about $75 per year. That works very well for VFR flight and is all that is needed. I use it on an IPhone for flight planning, briefing, filing, closing, air port information, fuel prices, rental cars, hotels, etc, and as a back-up navigator, but certainly not a primary system as I only have the internal GPS. It is fantastic for how I use it. A Garmin 396 with XM weather is my primary navigation system.

I have the basic subscription. Fills my pubs needs, nav needs, and the iPad allows entertainment, etc. during stops if I'm waiting on something like weather.

Mine is my primary nav, though I've got a 296 to supplement.