Past owner was using a Canadian General Electric 850W/120V portable heater. I think it's an old car heater from the 80s-90s, I'm more worried about this thing catching fire to be honest. Owner said that he'd put it under the cowling for about 8-10 hours before flight and get the compartment heated around 60 degrees F before starting the engine. I've been looking into the different Tanis systems as an alternative. I'm a bit confused on what I could install myself without needing a certified mechanic. I realize there's some systems with cylinder probes, which seem like they'd need to be installed by an A&P to me (for certification or w/e), but what do I know... However, they also have the part that's just an oil sump heater, which seems like it's totally something an average person would be capable of installing without any problems.

I don't plan on starting the airplane in any weather that's below 10 degrees F, it's just not weather which I really care to fly in. So with that being said, would the oil sump heater be enough to preheat the engine to working conditions in those temperatures? I don't want to make any assumptions, I've read quite a bit on these forums but haven't come to a conclusive argument. I'm not looking for a right/wrong, but more of a middle-line. Obviously I'd be better off with the additional cylinder probes.. but if this is going to cost a lot of extra jingle to install, then I might not go for it this year, as I have a lot of other things on my agenda already. This is more of a question for the time-being.. and also what I am allowed / not allowed to do as a NON-A&P owner. Somewhat seems like preventative maintenance in some ways to me, but then again what do I know. =D

Thanks

I'll start off with; The IA in me will say that "owner preventive maintenance" is taking parts that are already installed (or have been already installed by an A&P - think skis) and remove, clean, service and reinstall said items. Adding items that have never been installed need A&P supervision, which usually require some sort of paperwork (337 and/or W&B). If you are mechanically sound person, and you have a good relationship with your AP, then they can "supervise" you installing whatever you'd like (that they trust you doing).

As far as heating systems - you have a few choices.

I use the "80s or 90s car heater" as you say, on my 180. Why? because I have had them for over 10 years now and they haven't broke yet. My other plane has the Tanis heating system with heated intake bolts, because I have an engine analyzer and needed the CHT ports for it.

I have installed and used both Tanis and Reiff. Both are good systems. Tanis, I think, is a bit easier to install, but lean toward Reiff because they heat faster/hotter. I believe both these systems allow for installing certain parts and expanding at a later date. Such as installing only the oil pan heater and plugging in cylinders after the fact.

If you only want oil pan heater, Which I have thought I would do on my 180 (again, I have heaters that just wont break!) I like EZheat. Had one on a pacer I had, and really liked it, it worked great.

Don't use a "NAPA" oil pan heater. They are not thermostatically controlled like the above, and can/will cook your oil if you leave it plugged in for the 8-10 hours as you mentioned.

Tangogawd wrote:I'll start off with; The IA in me will say that "owner preventive maintenance" is taking parts that are already installed (or have been already installed by an A&P - think skis) and remove, clean, service and reinstall said items. Adding items that have never been installed need A&P supervision, which usually require some sort of paperwork (337 and/or W&B). If you are mechanically sound person, and you have a good relationship with your AP, then they can "supervise" you installing whatever you'd like (that they trust you doing).

As far as heating systems - you have a few choices.

I use the "80s or 90s car heater" as you say, on my 180. Why? because I have had them for over 10 years now and they haven't broke yet. My other plane has the Tanis heating system with heated intake bolts, because I have an engine analyzer and needed the CHT ports for it.

I have installed and used both Tanis and Reiff. Both are good systems. Tanis, I think, is a bit easier to install, but lean toward Reiff because they heat faster/hotter. I believe both these systems allow for installing certain parts and expanding at a later date. Such as installing only the oil pan heater and plugging in cylinders after the fact.

If you only want oil pan heater, Which I have thought I would do on my 180 (again, I have heaters that just wont break!) I like EZheat. Had one on a pacer I had, and really liked it, it worked great.

Don't use a "NAPA" oil pan heater. They are not thermostatically controlled like the above, and can/will cook your oil if you leave it plugged in for the 8-10 hours as you mentioned.

That right there ^^^ is the BEST advice you’ll find on that subject. I agree 100 %.

I would only add one thing: If you’re going to use one of those car interior heaters (we used the brand “Little Buddy” and I still have one) when you put it in the cowling and plug it in, make certain the FAN actually starts. When it’s very cold, the bearings in those fans may be gummed up. It’s rare, but if the fan doesn’t spin, it’ll overheat. There’s supposedly overheat protection to shut down, but……

I’ve used these things at -40 with never a problem…..cept the time I plugged one into 220, which some knob misfired an outlet to. Sounded like a J-58 jet engine next morning.

MTV

If you’re in a hangar and have some sort of blanket and cowl plugs, a sump heater should be adequate. I had an E-Z Heat on my Bonanza before installing a Reiff when it got overhauled.

I don’t know about BCP, but if this OP were on BeechTalk, it would be followed by 17 posts with photos of Rube Goldberg setups involving space heaters and dryer ducts, saying “I set this up myself with $60 worth of parts from Home Depot. Saved $100 over E-Z Heat!” If they show up, ignore them.

While installation of and EZheat pad is simple it doesn’t qualify as preventative maintenance. It would be a new installation vs preventive maintenance which is defined to mean "simple or minor preservation operations and the replacement ofsmall standard parts not involving complex assembly operations.

However, perhaps your interpretation of “simple or minor preservation operations” includes installing a EZheat pad, because it helps preserve the engine, and your IA will buy off on your interpretation come next annual then go for it.

Worth noting: that “exhaustive” list of maintenance items listed in FAR 43.3 is not actually exhaustive.
https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/he ... tation.pdf

CompSciAndFly wrote: Past owner was using a Canadian General Electric 850W/120V portable heater. I think it's an old car heater from the 80s-90s, I'm more worried about this thing catching fire to be honest. Owner said that he'd put it under the cowling for about 8-10 hours before flight and get the compartment heated around 60 degrees F before starting the engine. ...

Tangogawd wrote:....I use the "80s or 90s car heater" as you say, on my 180. Why? because I have had them for over 10 years now and they haven't broke yet....

Curious just what these look like.
Can either of you post a photo?
What I'm visualizing won't fit inside the average cowl.

I use just the EZ heat pads. That's all my Citabria had and that's what my 206 as. With a good insulated cowl cover the engine case gets nice and warm in a few hrs. May take a bit longer to get a cold soaked engine warm, but thats ok. If I was going with a full on system I'd take Reiff over Tanis any day. It's a cleaner install, I like the cylinder heats bands, and I've never had a failure with one causing smoke. I've had multiple Tanis failures where smoke came from the cowling and the fuses never burned. Tanis has always replaced the proves free of charge and even wrote me a cheque for labor, so great customer service, but its just been to close to fires when the failures have occurred and I'm not willing to take that chance anymore. I live in Northern Alberta and fly down to -30C.

mtv wrote:

Tangogawd wrote:I'll start off with; The IA in me will say that "owner preventive maintenance" is taking parts that are already installed (or have been already installed by an A&P - think skis) and remove, clean, service and reinstall said items. Adding items that have never been installed need A&P supervision, which usually require some sort of paperwork (337 and/or W&B). If you are mechanically sound person, and you have a good relationship with your AP, then they can "supervise" you installing whatever you'd like (that they trust you doing).

As far as heating systems - you have a few choices.

I use the "80s or 90s car heater" as you say, on my 180. Why? because I have had them for over 10 years now and they haven't broke yet. My other plane has the Tanis heating system with heated intake bolts, because I have an engine analyzer and needed the CHT ports for it.

I have installed and used both Tanis and Reiff. Both are good systems. Tanis, I think, is a bit easier to install, but lean toward Reiff because they heat faster/hotter. I believe both these systems allow for installing certain parts and expanding at a later date. Such as installing only the oil pan heater and plugging in cylinders after the fact.

If you only want oil pan heater, Which I have thought I would do on my 180 (again, I have heaters that just wont break!) I like EZheat. Had one on a pacer I had, and really liked it, it worked great.

Don't use a "NAPA" oil pan heater. They are not thermostatically controlled like the above, and can/will cook your oil if you leave it plugged in for the 8-10 hours as you mentioned.

That right there ^^^ is the BEST advice you’ll find on that subject. I agree 100 %.

I would only add one thing: If you’re going to use one of those car interior heaters (we used the brand “Little Buddy” and I still have one) when you put it in the cowling and plug it in, make certain the FAN actually starts. When it’s very cold, the bearings in those fans may be gummed up. It’s rare, but if the fan doesn’t spin, it’ll overheat. There’s supposedly overheat protection to shut down, but……

I’ve used these things at -40 with never a problem…..cept the time I plugged one into 220, which some knob misfired an outlet to. Sounded like a J-58 jet engine next morning.

MTV

Tannis’s STC system also offers a neat, permanently mounted cabin heater used on the same circuit.


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I have my 6 cylinder Reiff going right now for a few hours. Also, their oil pan heater. I think Reiff is way easier to install on Lycoming cylinders than big Continental's---was looking at a friends Mooney with IO360.

hotrod180 wrote:

CompSciAndFly wrote: Past owner was using a Canadian General Electric 850W/120V portable heater. I think it's an old car heater from the 80s-90s, I'm more worried about this thing catching fire to be honest. Owner said that he'd put it under the cowling for about 8-10 hours before flight and get the compartment heated around 60 degrees F before starting the engine. ...

Tangogawd wrote:....I use the "80s or 90s car heater" as you say, on my 180. Why? because I have had them for over 10 years now and they haven't broke yet....

Curious just what these look like.
Can either of you post a photo?
What I'm visualizing won't fit inside the average cowl.

Here's a picture of mine:

Tangogawd wrote:I'll start off with; The IA in me will say that "owner preventive maintenance" is taking parts that are already installed (or have been already installed by an A&P - think skis) and remove, clean, service and reinstall said items. Adding items that have never been installed need A&P supervision, which usually require some sort of paperwork (337 and/or W&B). If you are mechanically sound person, and you have a good relationship with your AP, then they can "supervise" you installing whatever you'd like (that they trust you doing).

Whee wrote:While installation of and EZheat pad is simple it doesn’t qualify as preventative maintenance. It would be a new installation vs preventive maintenance which is defined to mean "simple or minor preservation operations and the replacement ofsmall standard parts not involving complex assembly operations.

However, perhaps your interpretation of “simple or minor preservation operations” includes installing a EZheat pad, because it helps preserve the engine, and your IA will buy off on your interpretation come next annual then go for it.

I gotcha, makes sense to me. I will not install this stuff myself haha. I'll probably continue to use this old solution for a while until I get some other necessary A&P maintenance done and look at getting a Reiff preheat system installed at the same time.

Thank you all for the responses, very helpful!

Get a Reiff! Also, get the more powerful version, I think its called XP. Faster heat up time. Get the oil cooler option too. Preheat is something you don’t want to skimp or go cheap on.

Kurt

This is what I've had for years..... They seem to have gotten much more expensive.

https://www.amazon.com/Zerostart-260090 ... 0412&psc=1

G44 wrote:Get a Reiff! Also, get the more powerful version, I think its called XP. Faster heat up time. Get the oil cooler option too. Preheat is something you don’t want to skimp or go cheap on.

Kurt

I couldn't agree more. Preheat is nothing to skimp on as you can create an awful lot of wear with cold starts. The full Reiff (or Tanis) system will give the cylinders a good preheat. Heating the oil pan only can lead to a lot of condensation on the cylinders, with resulting corrosion. Differing coefficients of thermal expansion between steel and aluminum can result in interference fits. I've had the Reiff XP, like Kurt recommends, on two different aircraft and love it. Of course, a tie down with electric is not always that easy to come by.

Also, you're missing an awful lot of good flying weather around Anchorage if you limit your flying to +10 F and warmer. When we get nice high pressure systems and the temp drops a little below zero, the weather is great for flying.

Ross

Regardless of the system you select see if you can use a product from a company called Switcheon...saw them at OSH. It’s a cellular control system for turning in a device with a phone app....works on a sub band of telco cell service.. cost was $200 which included a year of service...after year one $50 per year. The advantage is you can turn on the heat from home and not do two drives to the airport in cold weather....also if your weather guess was wrong you can turn it off without a trip...can be two or four circuits at 25 amp combined max. Mine is in a metal hanger and I get 5 bars of service. They initially sold direct but may now be going through distribution.....I had heard they were available through Tanis....it’s magic in cold weather when you hit the Master and you’re oil temp jumps.....

Interesting that no one has mentioned the McFarlane SAFE HEET system. I don’t have any experience with it but am looking at options myself.
Has anybody seen any user reports on it?