Pulled this one from the Where Did You Fly Today thread... -Zane
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I flew back to Columbia last night to retrieve my wallet from out of the airport car, where I'd left it last weekend. Sometimes flying doesn't save time, but just makes regular life a lot more expensive. On the upside, it was a beautiful flight and now I'm night current. ATC was really quiet--a nice change from the weekend circus.

It was full dark and I was taxiing for t/o at Columbia when a Cirrus was on final for the opposite runway (nornal procedure at night here). I didn't announce that I was taxing for takeoff, figuring that I was starting from mid-field and he probably wouldn't need more than half the 4,700' runway and that he'd see my lights on anyway if he did land long. Well he did land long and he didn't see my lights, so when he started to pull onto the taxiway going the opposite direction, things were going to get interesting.

He stopped though and chided me on the radio ("I didn't hear your call"). I was tempted to make a smart aleck response like "I didn't know you'd need the whole freakin' runway" or "I didn't know you wouldn't see my lights" but passed. He turned around and back-taxiied on the runway. That castering nosewheel is good for some things. I have to admit that part of me was waiting to see if he could get it down and stopped in less than 2,300'.

Anyway, I seldom announce my taxi intentions unless I can see that there's likely to be a conflict. It's annoying when you're trying to report your position in the pattern and someone takes up airtime with "taxiing to the gas pump." This is just one of those little things that pilots like to get in a tizzy about, so I'll stop now.

CAVU

Maybe the plane was heavy and the pilot a student on first night landing at a strange airport and new at uphill downhill runways. Just a thought.
Jeremy

maules.com wrote:Maybe the plane was heavy and the pilot a student on first night landing at a strange airport and new at uphill downhill runways.

Maybe. I got the impression he was local. I think we just slightly annoyed each other. No big deal. He didn't pop the 'chute or anything.

CAVU

CAVU wrote: when a Cirrus was on final for the opposite runway

Good thing you knew he was incoming, he must have announced his approach over the CTAF.

CAVU wrote: I didn't announce that I was taxing for takeoff, figuring that I was starting from mid-field and he probably wouldn't need more than half the 4,700' runway and that he'd see my lights on anyway if he did land long.

I don't understand why it's so hard to open the mic and announce your intentions or position. Sounds like in this case, you had all the information about where the aircraft were, without contributing to the situational awareness of the other pilot, so if you want to be tight lipped, then it's your responsibiity to stay out of the way of other aircraft whether they land long or not.

Interesting topic similar to this on sc.org about radio vs visual scanning for VFR pilots.

This is the kind of sound and fury that I hope stays on other forums. My apologies to all for even mentioning it here.

quicksilver,

If your first statement is intended to suggest that I don't announce my intentions while airborn or on the runway, you would be mistaken.

In hindsight, it's easy to say that announcing was the simple and right thing to do. Personally, I find ground position reports that don't involve physical occupation of the runway (t/o, land or cross) are usually distracting for airborne aircraft, particularly when CTAF is shared with other nearby fields. Columbia shares the same frequency as McClellan, and McClellan has a lot of traffic including helicopters in the pattern. So, if you're inbound to Columbia, you're likely to have a lot of squeals while sorting out who is doing what in the pattern at Columbia. Add to that "Columbia traffic, Cessna 87U is taxiing from the gas pump to 17, Columbia" and the cost/benefit of transmitting ground movements becomes questionable, especially since traffic on the ground can't tell when someone is transmitting at McClellan (and causing another squeal).

My lights were all on and I was more than half a mile from where one would reasonably expect an airplane to touch down if he was on the VASI. Although I guessed wrong, I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that the pilot of a light single can get down and stopped in a half a mile. Now, if a twin or turboprop had called inbound, I would have announced my position for sure since a conflict would be likely. In the future, I won't make the assumption. If the frequency isn't congested, I'll announce and expect a reply like, "don't worry, we'll be off by midfield."

CAVU

CAVU,

Your description of the event seem to me to be ambiguous (big word, and perhaps not appropriately applied here ).

So, were you, or were you not, on the runway while this guy was landing?

If you were on a taxiway, there is certainly no reason to announce your intentions on the CTAF.

On the other hand, if you were on the runway, he was landing, making the assumption that he wouldn't need the whole runway and therefore taxiing out onto it midfield is somewhat tantamount to committing suicide.

I think the NTSB would have some harsh words if there were an accident IF that were the case.

When I'm landing on a runway, whether it's controlled or not, that WHOLE runway is MINE. If I choose to use it all, that's my choice. If I choose not to use it all, that also is MY choice.

But, if indeed you were simply on a taxiway going to the runway, there's no need to talk on CTAF.

In fact, there is no REQUIREMENT to talk at all in a non-controlled environment. BUT, the expectation is that everyone will give everyone else space when in that situation.

Hopefully, you were NOT on an active runway in front of a landing airplane. If so, I hope you never operate at an airport where I'm flying.

MTV

Sorry, I don't mean to take a harsh or flaming tone. That's one thing I like about this site is that everyone seems to be pretty chill.

Your description of the event as I understand it had you taking the runway at midfield without no CTAF call, with full knowledge that an aircraft was landing. I agree, announcing intentions to taxi on a taxiway is just frequency clutter, but for some reason it sounded like you taxied onto the runway without saying anything.

Sorry to jump on you, it just sounded like you were beating up on the Cirrus driver as if he did something wrong. I've never been to Columbia, do you have to backtaxi for takeoff on that runway?

I thought CAVU made it reasonably clear that he was on the taxiway. I too, rarely announce my ground movements on the ramp and taxiways for the same reasons he stated. On the ramp and taxiways I think it's more important to have my head on swivel and outside the cockpit and *listen* than to take up radio air time announcing my movements. From the pattern taxiway movements should be obvious and a landing pilot should be paying attention to them to avoid conflicts such as this.

Turning the coin over, I can also see how a pilot might become visually bound to the runway at night in an effort to gauge his height over the runway and also end up landing long for the same reasons, especially on a sloping runway in very dark conditions (minimal visual reference)...shit happens.

Guys, I'm sorry I didn't make it clearer that I was on the taxiway. [Was it Steve Martin who said "some people have a way with words and some people . . . uh . . . not . . . have . . . way."?] No way would I ever cross the threshold onto the runway when someone is landing. No way, no how, NEVER! I love life too much.

I was on the taxiway that parallels rwy 17/35, taxiing to the north from transient parking so I could depart to the south on 17. The Cirrus landed on runway 35 and rolled out past me on the runway going the same direction as I was taxiing on the taxiway. (Land 35/Depart 17 is the usual night procedure at Columbia since the approach to 35 is more open than the approach to 17, and 35 runs slightly up hill.)

After he rolled out past me on the runway, he exited the runway ahead of me and started to turn onto the taxiway to the south, heading opposite to the direction that I was taxiing and directly towards me on the taxiway. That's when he noticed that I was there and I knew there could be a problem.

It was just one of those things that happens, like taxiing into an alleyway right when someone comes in on the opposite end on the way to their spot. Calling my position and intentions on the taxiway could have avoided the misunderstanding but, given his position, someone was going to have to turn around. He was gracious and backtaxiied. Not a big deal, but something that caused me to think hmm, is there something that I should learn from this and do differently next time? Like I said, I'm not in the habit of making ground position calls, but if it's quiet and someone's on final, there's probably no harm and maybe some benefit.

No hard feelings, quicksilver. I'm sorry I got defensive.

CAVU

Sorry I jumped on ya... That second account totally paints a different picture of the story. And Strata is right, you actually did state that you were on the taxiway but the description of the interaction between the two aircraft sounded like it was on the runway. Anyway, interesting story. I've never met another aircraft in a high noon duel like that on the taxiway and I'm not sure what I would do.

CAVU,

THanks for clarifying. I'm with you on this one--it should be no big deal.

MTV

quicksilver wrote:I've never met another aircraft in a high noon duel like that on the taxiway and I'm not sure what I would do.

dontlookdown wrote:...Bring on Summer.

Noooooooo!! I've had enough of summer for one year! Yes, I know where you live.

CAVU,

I am based at Columbia and can tell you in my humble opinion, you did everything right and he did a couple of things wrong.

Your right about 17 departures and 35 arrivals at night at O22. What you didn't mention here was the large runup area available to an aircraft that exits 35 at the far end near the tanker base. You can easily fit four aircraft there and I'm wondering why he didn't duck in there when he saw you already on the taxi way. It is my opinion that if an aircraft is on a taxiway before me I should yield to him if possible. Many times I have landed 17 and waited in between the runway and taxiway, at the first turn out, for planes taxiing for a 17 departure. I sure as heck wouldn't just taxi onto the taxiway without verifying a clear path without conflicting traffic. Jumping somebody on the radio is also bad form. IMHO...

I'm definitely a proponent of doing all the correct radio calls at the right times, but I think this is yet another case of someone expecting radio calls to substitute for their own eyeballs. Seemed like a non-issue.

It is obvious that the Cirrus was at fault for at least three reasons. (1) he cannot land at Chicken Strip in Death Valley, (2) he is a composite, (3)and of course the most obvious is that he is not on this forum so his silence has doomed him.

Tim

PS the only time that I announce that I am clear the active 32 is when sombody is in the box for takeoff.

qmdv wrote:It is obvious that the Cirrus was at fault for at least three reasons. (1) he cannot land at Chicken Strip in Death Valley, (2) he is a composite, (3)and of course the most obvious is that he is not on this forum so his silence has doomed him.

All excellent points...

[quote="qmdv"]It is obvious that the Cirrus was at fault for at least three reasons. (1) he cannot land at Chicken Strip in Death Valley, (2) he is a composite, (3)and of course the most obvious is that he is not on this forum so his silence has doomed him.

Dang, Tim! You found me out! It's funny, though. A generation or so ago, it was the "spam can" drivers who were the nouveau nere-do-wells. And when it comes to plastic, think of all of that Royalite inside our Cessnas. It is a shame, though, that the most popular of the newest generation of designs is so limited in the strips it can use. Maybe we'll see a turbo SR22 with Bushwheels on it.

I am really looking forward to the Chx Strip this winter. I just hope the lower springs come back enough to make them soakable.

Thanks to everyone for your comments and feedback. I appreciate them all. I'm going to be extra careful to describe the setup with precision before I think about stirring the pot again. Better not to stir at all, though and just go flying.

CAVU

Somebody's gotta stir the pot. Usually it's me saying something stupid and showing off my n00bness.