I am hoping to be able start actively shopping for a plane in the next 6-8 months. The planes mission will need to fly out of 12-1300ft and clear trees solo and be decent in cruise for faster then driving x country. I am a small guy @130lbs from my research a 85 hp tcraft will fit the mission (correct me if I am wrong). So now I am wanting to know what you guys think a decent tcraft will cost. What's the price difference between 85 and 100hp?

I know of one that's disassembled in good condition. I think it can be had for around $15k. Not sure what it would take to get it flying, maybe another $10k?

The T-Crafts are fine planes I understand, but why not go with a Rotax 912 powered Experimental like a Kitfox model IV or similar?

Taylorcraft are great little airplanes. Make certain you get a really good checkout in one by a flight instructor with a lot of T Craft time. One thing about them is that they aren't the easiest planes to enter and exit if you're not real flexible. Since you're pretty light, I'd imagine you're more flexible as well.

I don't know what they're selling for these days, but I'd bet you could get into a really good one for less than $30 K. Maybe a lot less.

MTV

Taylorcrafts are great little airplanes. I've owned both a 65 and 85HP BC-12D. The 85hp version managed to get me out of the old Templeton Meadows airstrip near Mt Whitney with full backpack gear. I'm guessing the DA was more than 10k and the 85 still did the job. I fit fine as a 17 year old kid with a big backpack strapped in beside me. Tons of adverse yaw and fun to spin. I'd jump on a good one with an 85 for $18-20k.

blackrock wrote:I know of one that's disassembled in good condition. I think it can be had for around $15k. Not sure what it would take to get it flying, maybe another $10k?

The T-Crafts are fine planes I understand, but why not go with a Rotax 912 powered Experimental like a Kitfox model IV or similar?

I would love to fly an experimental with a 912 but I think I can find a flying plane for the cost of a 912. If a 912 plane that was decent could be had for around the same price I would definitely be interested. I haven't cut all options out but I am pretty interested in the tcraft

Off hand I don't know of anyone that has a lot of tcraft time. What are you calling a really good check out? So far every plane that I have flown I have felt pretty comfortable with in the first half hour. I flew a friends champ and in 15 minutes was doing very respectable landings (I think) considering the time I had in the plane and that I hadn't flown a tailwheel for 2.5 years. Is there something about a tcraft that makes it longer to feel comfortable it?

cstolaircraft wrote:Off hand I don't know of anyone that has a lot of tcraft time. What are you calling a really good check out? So far every plane that I have flown I have felt pretty comfortable with in the first half hour. I flew a friends champ and in 15 minutes was doing very respectable landings (I think) considering the time I had in the plane and that I hadn't flown a tailwheel for 2.5 years. Is there something about a tcraft that makes it longer to feel comfortable it?

PM'd you with a great plane and The fellow that has it can check you out, tho he is no CFI, but he know how to fly!.

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Blackrock wrote:
I think it can be had for around $15k. Not sure what it would take to get it flying, maybe another $10k?

Looking at Barnstormers, I see occasional RANS S6 and Zenith 701s coming up in the twenty-something range. For tailwheel, an older model RANS S6 might be the ticket. Unlike the Kitfox, it has true flaps, not flaperons, and the maintenance as an Experimental (vs Certified Taylorcraft) might be cheaper as well. Plus it is still an AC in production and parts are not made out of unobtainium. In case of hangar rash, recovering is relatively simple for many of them which have slip on Dacron skins. An 80 HP Rotax with your wonderful 130 lb frame is a great match. You can even Zipper the engine for another $4300 to 114 HP.
http://zipperbigbore.com/
Lightly loaded and with your frame, that should give an S6 near VTOL characteristics . Be aware that the RANS S6 comes in different wing configurations, that there are different models such as the S6, S6SE, and S6S, and that some planes feature slip on Dacron covering, while others may have the traditional dope and fiber.

My other thought was maybe an older Piper PA 20/22 in tail configuration. Also, I am not sure what the insurance considerations are for Taylorcraft vs. a Rans. I know Maule insurance can be brutal. The S6 also does feature folding wings in case shared storage in a hangar is a consideration. The metal vs rag covering debate I will leave for others. Also resale ability/value is something to consider if you ever plan to move on to another plane. Resale comparison of Taylorcraft vs. RANS S6 I will leave for others to discuss; I know zip.

Incidentally, here is an older Rotax powered RANS S7 selling for 17K on Barnstormers (January 2016), but it notes sale pending.

I think if you have 6-8 months to look, there is a super deal out there with your very name on it. Lucky you. I wish I were shopping for, or building, a plane. Do let us know how it plays out.

I love my Tcraft! Been in my family since the 70's and I've been flying it since I was a little fella. The key is having a light one, and getting them slow on approach, come in over 60 mph and you'll fly off the other end of the runway about 1 foot up. Faster than most else on 65hp too. There plenty of good ones for less than 20k, if you go 85hp make sure to have a wing tank or two. 15 mph crosswinds are no problem and I've done over 20 with our worry. Any questions feel free to email me [email protected]

It took me a while to warm up to flying a plane with a Rotax 912, but after getting several hours in one I am impressed. The benefit of an experimental is being able to do a lot of the work yourself (legally).
I have flown in both, the RANS and Kitfox planes. They are outstanding performers. Comparing one to an 85+ HP Champ T-cart, etc. isn't even fair. The Rans and KF will outperform them in every aspect, at least in my experience. Plus they do it on less fuel.
T-carts are known for good cruise speeds on little HP.

I'd say you could for sure get into a good T-Craft cheaper. It's the best bang for the buck in flying, still. I also sold my BC12-D for more then I paid for it, and the couple of times after that it sold for a little more, every time . It's in Bozeman MT last time I heard, hickory brown trim and Datoyna White, keep an eye out for it MTV! Decent resale value is pretty much assured for a good certified classic, not so for an experimental, that market is much more volatile. Sad but true.

At sea level or close to it, my 65 hp did real good, it constantly surprised me how well it flew. The vast majority of my 119 hrs in mine (I think it was, right close to that) was in Idaho and Montana, so based at 4500'+, and still very adequate with the right girlfriend. 120 or so. I was 145 lbs, at your weight I wouldn't turn my nose up at a 65, if all else was a killer deal. Doing an engine upgrade later would always be an option.

They land like an ultralight, most if not all T-Craft landing issues are it still wanting to fly. I was lucky enough to see a real good T pilot shoot a landing right before I got in mine to ferry it home from Caldwell (bad wing spars, but good enough for a short gentle ferry flight). My buddy who sold it to me, used to fly ultralights with me, after watching that landing he grinned and said "you get it, see how slow they land, like an ultralight!"

I haven't thought about looking at the rans I did look into avids and didn't like the price of the 912s and don't want to fly behind 2 strokes. For those who have flown the s6 and the t craft how do they compare? Sounds like the s6 has better stol but possibly won't fly so well in the wind as the t craft?

I don't have a whole lot of Taylorcraft time, but they'll get you in and out of that 1200', especially solo. They really like to float on landing if you're a little fast, but with a little time, you can nailnit every time. If you're open to others, I currently operate a Cessna 140 off of 1200' with no issues at all solo...and have regularly operated with a 230lb passenger with me. Granted, not with full tanks, but it did the job.

Same problem, telling me I'm denied, lets see if this gets through.

courierguy wrote:Same problem, telling me I'm denied, lets see if this gets through.

You got through! Started working again for me.

jmd4j wrote:I don't have a whole lot of Taylorcraft time, but they'll get you in and out of that 1200', especially solo. They really like to float on landing if you're a little fast, but with a little time, you can nailnit every time. If you're open to others, I currently operate a Cessna 140 off of 1200' with no issues at all solo...and have regularly operated with a 230lb passenger with me. Granted, not with full tanks, but it did the job.

I was interested in the 140 but in my research they didn't seam to have the climb I need. Where I am wanting to base my plane will have 50 ft obstructions at about 1300 foot. But I am open to other planes

are own "Mr EZflap" -Bill Berle has had several Taylorcraft's see here http://www.grantstar.net/aviation-adven ... ories.html

Second try after losing first post. Taylorcraft is an excellent airplane, I've owned four of them. With your light weight, a healthy 65HP motor on a reasonably light one is plenty plenty plenty of performance anywhere under 4000' DA. I'm 225+ and have flown the 65HP Tcraft successfully at 7000+ DA (with correct technique).

T-craft requires a little more instruction and practice than a Champ or Cub. Has 90+% of the Cub's STOL performance, and 15% faster cruise speed. Requires you to become an expert in the forward sliip maneuver. Not quite as good of a "real world bush plane" as the Cub, only because it is harder to reliably land on a spot in gusty and turbulent air.

Decent, flying, safe Taylorcraft with 65HP can be had under $20K. Upgrade later to 85HP and have a very very capable sport back country airplane.

But if the time ever comes where you want to get in to that 400 foot clearing in the bottom of a canyon, in gusty turbulent air, with no go-around possible, that requires a Super Cub and you just have to pay the money and buy one. Until then, the T-craft is without a doubt the best bang for the buck.

But you absolutely need to have a good Taylorcraft instructor, your average flight school C-172 guy/girl simply cannot make you truly competent in the old T-craft.

cstolaircraft wrote:Off hand I don't know of anyone that has a lot of tcraft time. What are you calling a really good check out? So far every plane that I have flown I have felt pretty comfortable with in the first half hour. I flew a friends champ and in 15 minutes was doing very respectable landings (I think) considering the time I had in the plane and that I hadn't flown a tailwheel for 2.5 years. Is there something about a tcraft that makes it longer to feel comfortable it?

No, the Taylorcraft airplanes are very reliable straightforward flyers. My point was in reference to ANY airplane that you approach that you've never flown. So, with 15 minutes and a few landings, you're good to go in a Champ? What about a 15 knot crosswind? Or a quartering tailwind on short final? How about a solid and repeatable minimum radius turn (canyon turn)? Do you know the airplane's systems inside and out?

That's what I'm talking about when I say you need to get a good checkout in a particular airplane type. Especially one you haven't flown before. And, even Chuck Yeager admitted that it took him a little while to get proficient in a new to him airplane.....

Your avatar suggests that you're a Mission Pilot in training. I would hope that all the mission pilot training outfits REQUIRE substantial training in a particular airplane type before they turn you loose in one of theirs.

While the Taylorcraft isn't a particularly demanding airplane, it handles a little different than most of its contemporary designs. And, while its systems are simple, you still need to know how they function.....that can save your butt in an emergency. In fact, that knowledge may turn a potential emergency into a "no big deal" event.

As to whether there are folks around who know Taylorcrafts, they're out there, just do a little looking.

And, finally, if you intend to insure this airplane after you acquire it, your insurance company is most likely going to require a checkout in the aircraft type.

MTV

mtv wrote:...My point was in reference to ANY airplane that you approach that you've never flown. So, with 15 minutes and a few landings, you're good to go in a Champ? What about a 15 knot crosswind? Or a quartering tailwind on short final? How about a solid and repeatable minimum radius turn (canyon turn)? Do you know the airplane's systems inside and out? That's what I'm talking about when I say you need to get a good checkout in a particular airplane type. ....
And, finally, if you intend to insure this airplane after you acquire it, your insurance company is most likely going to require a checkout in the aircraft type.

About that 15 knot crosswind and quartering tailwind stuff... can the CFI produce those conditions on demand? I think a lot of that is just gonna come with time, as you fly the airplane and encounter situations which stretch your skills some. Remember the saying that our pilot's certificate is just "a license to learn"?

On some forums, sometimes even this one, I've heard people mention something like wanting to try a slightly slower approach-to-land speed or similar, and someone else will pipe up with "yeah, get an instructor and go try it". Really? We're not talking about reinventing the wheel, just slightly modifying techniques which you (should) already know.

In some ways, you're better off learning stuff on your own. Sometimes having that CFI along serves as a crutch. Remember JFK Jr-- oodles of time but almost all of it logged as dual. So he encountered a tough situation alone, he was unable to handle it, and down he went -- taking two pax along with him.

Yes, if you get it insured they're generally gonna require a checkout and signoff. How long a checkout varies...when I bought my first taildragger the insurance company wanted 5 hours. But when I bought my 180, with a couple thousand hours of t/w time already, they just said "a checkout" so a CFI buddy of mine flew with me for an hour. I did fly a couple hours with the seller also, but I think that hour checkout would have sufficed to get me in the air and learning as I went. Which I'm still doing BTW.