Idaho - Fish Lake - July.
Question was - where is Fish Lake?
Answer - Down there - under that fog of mosquitoes.
Let's go back to Moose Crick.
Hokay

rw2 wrote:I was thinking pondering that is *exactly* what we should do. So I looked it up because I was unfamiliar with that brand.

Apparently it's pyrethrin which has been used as a reasonably safe insecticide for over a hundred years. How it is deadly to bugs but no humans is because of differences between insect and mammalian nervous systems and that it is much harder to get it into mammals at all because of our skin.

So I wouldn't go ahead and put it on your ice cream, but it looks pretty legit and pyrethrin is definitely available in the US in many forms even if the Konk brand isn't.

Rw,
Thanks for looking that up. I've always been afraid to because I didn't want to quit using it. It is awesome stuff for moskos and blackflies. My sister leaves her camper door open all day because 99% of the camp food comes out of her kitchen, by evening it is filled with critters but after a quick shot of konk you don't see or hear a bug all night.

Send me a PM if you can't find any.

/a

hey if we're talking bug repellent... try this ... works like a charm and you probably already have some.... bounce fabric softener sheets.... just steal a few from the laundry room and put them in a plastic bag... when camping I just rub one over my hat and arms and no bugs... works like a charm and you always smell fresh......

iceman wrote:hey if we're talking bug repellent... try this ... works like a charm and you probably already have some.... bounce fabric softener sheets.... just steal a few from the laundry room and put them in a plastic bag... when camping I just rub one over my hat and arms and no bugs... works like a charm and you always smell fresh......

I always wondered what those things were good for..good to know...never really cared if my clothes were softer, and don't like them to smell like anything if I can help it.
As far as tents; I like to sleep under the wing. Amazing how much the wing keeps the dew off you.
But keep a good tent and a good ground tarp handy for the rainy muddy creepy crawly camps. Most of the time in the summer I just pitch my bag and pad on a tarp and fold it over me if the bugs or dew bother me...but when you want a tent you want a good one. Thunderstorms or the occasional snow will roll through.

Since we've drifted from tents to bugs, which is fine by me since that was really what the initial post was really about, my experience is that if dryer sheets or Avon Skin So Soft is effective then you don't have a bug problem. I guide in the Adirondacks and work outdoors through all four seasons in addition to a regular job. When the air is still, with no breeze to keep the bugs off during "bug season," which is most of the year, black flies and misquotes aren't phased by much in my area except for direct chemical attack. Ben's 100 is 100% DEET and most guides I know try to keep it off their skin, but if you're rowing a boat on a trout pond in dead still air or you can't keep walking to get away from them, most of us ignore the warning about cancer and put it directly on skin and re-apply as necessary. I've had times when I'd have been willing to drink it if it would have helped. You have to be careful though because it will melt plastic, including leader material and monofilament, but it is effective on bugs. Pburns here is an outfitter that I've done quite a bit of work for and he knows of a story where a Boy Scout went for medical attention because of the severity of getting "chew up", and it was not allergy related! If you've been really chewed on you know what they mean when they say "The bugs are hot." From what I hear, the bugs are worse in Northern Canada and Alaska than they are in the Adirondacks. If they are, the woodsmen there have my respect, and my sympathy. I have no concerns about staying dry in a driving rain, I've guided in enough of that and know how to pitch a shelter to stay dry, or rattlesnakes and mice- plenty of them in the Grand Canyon (although my wife doesn't like mice) along with scorpions etc., but when the bugs are hot you're not going to get much sleep.

I'll be taking a 2 man tent from Mountain Hardwear or The North Face, cozy but light and bug proof. I'm going to pull the back seat out of my 172, take all the residual tools and etc. out of the baggage compartment and pack light for the trip. My goal is to end up with no more total weight packed for the trip than what came out came out of the plane plus what I've lost personally since the first of the year. Think Flight of Passage with tent, sleeping bags and French Press. So I'll effectively be flying with 2 and the weight of an empty plane. I'll let you know how I make out.

Any recommendations on ultralight chairs that aren't ridiculously expensive? I don't care for Crazy Creek. The old style folding aluminum and webbing lawn chairs are about 1/2 the weight of the typical folding chair that goes in a bag. I'm on the hunt for a couple of those now but they're getting hard to find.

Thanks.

Frank

Hey Frank,
Assuming you're sleeping on a thermarest just get the chair conversion...it's a sleeve the pad goes into and folds it into a chair. Providing you're flexible enough to get up off the ground at will, it's by far the most comfortable camp chair ever made...lightest, too.

A tent is fine, but aside from a hand full of strips, Idaho is pretty bug-free most the summer. My wife and I use a Black Diamond mega-mid exclusively all throughout Idaho and Montana while backpacking and packrafting and it works fine. Pitched correctly it'll keep most the bugs out, most places. If you want to shave some weight you won't be unhappy in one anywhere but Fish Lake.

For cooking you might look into alcohol stoves. WAY lighter than any other option and perfectly adequate for summer cooking. You can make a real good one out of a cat food can, and it doubles as a pot support. Cost fifty-cents and weighs less than a nickel. I cook on them all the time and couldn't be happier. Yellow bottles of HEAT gas-line antifreeze are readily available in any town, so you don't have to cary a bunch of fuel with you

Beer is nice, but Lemonhart 151 proof rum in a Sawyer squeeze bag weighs about 1/30th as much for the same fun-factor. Mix it with creek water and crystal light lemonaid powder. If you find huckleberries, muddle a handful of those in the mix and you're about as close to heaven as a drink can put you. Make sure your tent is pitched first...

If you're fishing don't bother with waders or wading shoes. It's plenty warm enough to just use neoprene sox under your Chaco's or trail shoes.

Speaking of shoes...consider real boots if you're going to hike. All the forks of the Salmon have plenty of snakes, and the Seleway not only has lots of snakes, but the biggest rattlers I've ever seen in Idaho by a factor of two. Some of the snakes in there are large enough to kill a man. It's not a super-big deal, but extended hiking in river sandals is not recommended. I've hiked for a week without seeing a snake and other times I've run into seven before lunch...just luck of the draw.

Pretty much every landing site has water access, so a filter can take the place of carrying gallons of water with you. There are some exceptions, but they're pretty obvious.

Idaho in July is a pretty mellow climate. It can be cold in the morning but it doesn't last. The weather can go to hell, but as a pilot you'll see that coming ahead of time and probably won't be hanging around in the mountains anyway. Days are long and you really don't need that much to get by.

I have a Easton Torrent 3 person, 4 season tent I really like because the mesh doors and vents have solid panels that can be zipped closed over them. Really nice to keep dust in the tent at a minimum at places like HSF.

I've been looking for a 6 person with the same features. Anyone have recommendations? Thanks

Fshaw,

I hear you. Everybody has bug stories, and I think it goes from bad to max and doesn't get any worse whether you are in the Adirondacks or the Amazon.

When I proposed to my wife I was having a hard time judging her reaction because there was about a 1 to 2 ratio of mosquitos to air.

The best bug dope I've found it Watkins. Not sure how much deet, but it smells OK and it doesn't feel like you bathed yourself in plastic. I usually spray a bit on my ball cap and my clothes and that keeps me sane.

I'd sooner face a bear. Bugs are insidious and it gets very expensive to shoot them.

Problem solved. [emoji1]

albravo wrote:The best bug dope I've found it Watkins. Not sure how much deet

28%

On a humid Wisconsin evening in July I think the mozzies look at 28% as bait.

More seriously: Deet is reasonably well established as a neurotoxin. So spray your clothes and limit exposure to your skin.

Neurotoxin? Dang-it, that must be why I'm having such a hard time understanding the instruction book for my new camera. I just thought it was a liver carcinogen. I know it does smart when you get it in your eyes and doesn't taste very good, kind of like oily pepper.

Frank

To continue the thread drift to mosquitoes:

I have found that repellents with 20% Icaridine (Bayrepel trade name) works great. Not sticky or oily like Deet and does not melt plastic like Deet. The brand name of the repellent from Johnson is Autan in a 100ml pump spray bottle.

Unfortunately it is not available in the USA at 20%, only 10%, According to research in North Australia, where I understand the mosquitoes have registration numbers, the 20% worked at least as well as Deet but 10% not so much.

Personal experience is the blood suckers occasionally may land but immediately fly off without drilling for blood.

I get mine from http://www.pharmacy2u.co.uk. Not inexpensive but cheaper than Zika or West Nile.

rw2 wrote:
I was thinking pondering that is *exactly* what we should do. So I looked it up because I was unfamiliar with that brand.

Apparently it's pyrethrin which has been used as a reasonably safe insecticide for over a hundred years. How it is deadly to bugs but no humans is because of differences between insect and mammalian nervous systems and that it is much harder to get it into mammals at all because of our skin.

So I wouldn't go ahead and put it on your ice cream, but it looks pretty legit and pyrethrin is definitely available in the US in many forms even if the Konk brand isn't.


Rw,
Thanks for looking that up. I've always been afraid to because I didn't want to quit using it. It is awesome stuff for moskos and blackflies. My sister leaves her camper door open all day because 99% of the camp food comes out of her kitchen, by evening it is filled with critters but after a quick shot of konk you don't see or hear a bug all night.

Send me a PM if you can't find any.

Can't find Konk in the US, here is something comparable according to the label.

http://www.domyownpestcontrol.com/cb80- ... aQodaAkH0Q

Those of you who have been anywhere in northern Canada or Alaska during the summer will know what it means when you hear that "the bugs are bad"! They are generally around the size of a sparrow and they all wear fur coats. No, I'm not kidding - they're "fuzzy", which makes them much bigger than those anemic, wimpy bugs you have in the south.

Okay, maybe they're more the size of a humming bird.

Those bug jackets really do work and will prevent the need to plaster repellant all over your skin. Head nets are annoyingly hot, but I keep one in the pocket of my survival vest for really bad days. Long pants and long-sleeved shirts are de rigueur in this part of the country. Mosquitoes are the scourge of the tundra and seem to be acclimated to temperatures between 50 and 70F. They're not so bad on hotter days.

Black flies love the heat but tend to only be a problem south of the tree-line. The little buggers will climb up your pant legs and chow down on your ankles. Sometimes we have to duct-tape our pants to keep them out.

Then there's the deer flies. They have a knack for landing so stealthily that you don't know they're on you until you discover you're missing a chunk of flesh.

I use Muskol (30% DEET) on ankles and the backs of hands, maybe a little on the neck and forehead. Otherwise, clothing and bug jackets keep the bugs off. Also, the bug jacket is kept in a zip-lock bag with a few squirts of Muskol.

Don't underestimate the power of mosquitoes. They can be severe enough to cause a human to become demoralized and start making bad survival decisions.

Oh yeah - tents: A proper tent with a floor and mosquito screened windows and doors will prevent the bugs from carrying you off before the searchers arrive!

I have a fair bit of time in BD mid and the smaller cousin (made for 2 hiking/ski poles) the beta mid. They are good functional shelters and very lightweight - but require lower expectations about keeping out bugs and elements. I would pair it with a bivy sack just in case. You really need to have an ultralight mindset with these things - which most of us plane camping types (jes by a mall) wont like at all.

I prefer a proper 3 or 4 season tent, but only a 2- or 3-person size. A big 6-person tent can be a joke in any real weather.

I have a 6-person REI dome tent - and while it's okay - I would only use it for car camping - where if the shit hits the fan i can just get in the car and leave. In a plane camping situation I'd rather have 2 different 3-person tents than a 6. Really even if you have a family - it's just too freaking large - and the walls collapse really easily in wind and heavy precip. No bueno.

Eureka apex 4 season tent very high quality no issues