very well said Gump...only had it happen once on a new motor, in the dark, but luckily had 900 agl to get it done, with out the prop turnin'...i think at 500' would be very marginal, at least in the thin idaho air...!

GumpAir wrote:Just f**king remember......

There's a whole lot less energy and crunch running into something under control at 40-50 MPH with the VSI at ZERO. Than whacking the ground at the bottom of a 300 foot stall-spin in an attempt to find a runway.

If you can react fast enough and feel solid thru the seat of your pants while turning, good on ya. If not, aim for the cheapest and softest thing to hit.

Gump

Words to live by. Literally.

I have had ten engine failures at or below 200.' The one on takeoff, I landed straight ahead on the runway. The one on the pipeline, I maneuvered aggressively to a good field. The rest, while spraying, were coming out of the field or in the turn.

These are six second deals. Not enough time to get back or check anything out. The best off field site will be immediately evident, as there will be very few we can make in the 180 degree hemisphere to our front. That does not mean we have to hit the house straight ahead.

The turn used by crop dusters and gunship pilots is energy efficient. If we have enough kinetic energy of pressure airspeed, we pitch up and begin a turn (downwind first and then back into the wind with a working engine) to the target (off field site, enemy, next crop row, etc.) We are trading airspeed for altitude. As we slow, losing relative wind noise, buoyancy, stick pressure, etc., we allow the nose to fall through the horizon naturally. We do not try to hold it up. Only the pilot can stall an airplane by pulling back. Turn loose and an airplane will not stall. We are now trading gravity thrust of altitude for airspeed. When the nose comes vertically down to and horizontally over to the target, we level the wing. From this point on down we control the nose with rudder only and no aileron except to keep the wing level. The boys in Costa Rica worried me a bit putting the wing down so close to the trees. Also we don't want to get a wallowing, bracketing line up going. They gained a little glide range with the coordinated turn, but if we possibly could hit something, we want to hit it flat. On one of the forced landings, I was (high and slow minded) on Parathion and cartwheeled a Call Air. Tore a wing and engine off. That pile was not just tired, it was all used up. You'all wear helmet, nomex with the sleeves rolled down, nomex or leather gloves, and boots when you fly, don't you?

Except the failure on takeoff, I was always too high and too fast requiring full flaps and full forward or side slip to make the beginning of the landing site. (The nose in a Cessna will just bobble within a limited pitch up and down. Otherwise it is under complete control.) This is because the low altitude forced landing site must be very close. For a crop duster or pipeline pilot, 500' is a whole other world. You could get a nose bleed up there.

By the way, this energy management (no load factor) turn is also the safest way to turn around in a box canyon where horizontal space is limited and vertical space is adequate. Again, 200' of vertical space is a world of space and lots of gravity thrust.