I'm no astronomer...but, I have heard that Polaris is so far away that even if we were on Alfa Centuri...it would still be oriented basically the same as here on Earth. Hopefully, someone who knows can chime in.

Below is a pretty good flying account, for those that haven't heard of it. Gus Mcleod flew solo to the geographic north pole in a Stearman biplane. His GPS froze up somewhere over the barren pack ice, so he continued north by taking "sun shots" with his watch and the travel of the sun as measured with his fist and reference points on the airframe.

The altitude of the north star above the horizon (northern hemisphere) is also you latitude. At north plole, the noth stare is directly overhead. Problem is, you cannot see it in the summer cus it is daylight all day long.

Your local aparent noon (highest altitude of the sun from where you are will give you a latitdude line if you know the day of the year and have the tables. You can also get a longetude if you have an acurate time piece and the tables.

If memory serves me.

Tim

Tim's right. In Fairbanks, the North Star is pretty useless for finding north, since it is so close to being directly overhead, and that's at ~65 degrees north. The guys at NARL used to go to the north pole in Cessna 180s with some regularity, long before the advent of GPS.

MTV

That time lapse picture of the star trails is worth more than a thousand words to explain why the north star is always in the north.

I've had experts tell me that in the Northern Hemisphere you can find your position if you have an accurate clock, a protractor and a string. If you only need your latitude you don't need the clock. That equipment is good enough to find SF instead of LA coming from Hawaii, assuming a clear night.
I think at that point you would have to REALLY understand celestial navigation.

My neighboor fancies himself as an avid Astronomer.....he told me the other day that every single star/planet, visible in the sky is part of the Milky Way galaxy except for one....I just can't remember which one it is, that isnt

Anyone know??

SixTwoLeemer wrote:My neighboor fancies himself as an avid Astronomer.....he told me the other day that every single star/planet, visible in the sky is part of the Milky Way galaxy except for one....I just can't remember which one it is, that isnt

Anyone know??

Actually, just to screw with your head, the current thinking is that our sun is part of the Sagittarius Dwarf Galaxy that is in the last stages of being absorbed by the Milky Way!

That is the reason that the Milky Way band across the night sky is on a slant instead of being in the same plane as our solar system.

So, technically speaking, we were kidnapped by the Milky Way and are really the aliens!

Skystrider wrote:So, technically speaking, we were kidnapped by the Milky Way and are really the aliens!

That explains Zane

Tim

I'm a bit of a nerd for learning about alternative means of navigation. I have a sextant that I'm far from proficient with, but it's a lot of fun to try to learn to use it.

One of the most fascinating books I've read in the last few years is "Longitude: The True Story of a Lone Genius Who Solved the Greatest Scientific Problem of His Time, the story of John Harrison and the modern clock": http://www.amazon.com/Longitude-Genius-Greatest-Scientific-Problem/dp/0140258795. I highly recommend it to anyone interested in the history of modern navigation.

Another good book is "Emergency Navigation", which is no longer in print. It concerns itself mainly with alternative means of navigation at sea, but there's some great stuff in there.

Another classic in the realm of aviation navigation is "The Song of The Sky" by Guy Murchie, which is fantastic.

Yeah, and just ask an old "Hump" pilot, like I had the opportunity to do once, what they think of new fangled handheld GPS'S.

"They could have saved a lot of men", was the response I got. They love them.

Fascinating subject, we have it so damn easy nowadays.....although I STILL carry an EB-6 and a plotter just in case. The first time some other pilot asks what they are, I'll know it's maybe time to throw them out, most just chuckle.

SixTwoLeemer wrote:My neighboor fancies himself as an avid Astronomer.....he told me the other day that every single star/planet, visible in the sky is part of the Milky Way galaxy except for one....I just can't remember which one it is, that isnt

Anyone know??

The Andromeda Galaxy is the only galaxy visible to the naked eye (except our own of course). Everything one can see with the naked eye is therefore within our own galaxy with the exception of another galaxy (Andromeda).

As for celestial navigation, while I have never done it myself, I do know it wouldn't be very hard to use a protractor and plumb-bob in place of a sextant to get position (not just lattitude). Just need the charts, a clock, and a good brain.

I was a pretty smart kid in school, and basically coasted through college. But, for a "fun" class at Humboldt State I took celestial navigation, and man-oh-man, I got my ass kicked. I had to work harder than any other class I've ever taken, and that was just to barely keep up, much less rise to the top.

The math and science are simple, but the application and attaining proficiency is not. The thought of standing on a pitching deck in a storm, or bouncing along in a WWII bomber trying to get an accurate shot of a star you're only guessing at, knowing you and your crew's lives depend on your interpretation of all those variables is truly frightening.

Magic when it does work though...

Gump

At the end of Shackleton's voyage, a few of them made a 800 plus or minus KM trip accros the worst ocean in the world in a life boat and found the island they were looking for. I did it through a pariscope on our sub and I thoght that was tough.

If shoot one star, you get a line of position (lop). Two stars and you get two lines and where they cross is your position. If you shoot three stars you get three lop's and usually a triangle. The smaller the triangle the better job you did.

Any alph male (most on this site are) that has not read of Shackleton's adventure are really missing somthing. I read it and that is why I will never watch survivor on TV.


Tim

Much better link to Shackleton. http://www.antarcticconnection.com/anta ... ndex.shtml

April 1916, Shackleton and the five strongest sailors-Worsely, Crean, McNish, McCarthy, and Vincent set sail in the 22-½ foot lifeboat, the James Caird, from Elephant Island. Knowing that the risks were extreme, they set out to cross 800 miles of the roughest seas on earth in order to reach the whaling stations on the East side of South Georgia Island. Their navigational equipment consisted only of a sextant and compass. Given that the skies were perpetually gray and overcast, their chance of a clear and accurate celestial sighting, in order to plot their position, was slim. Accuracy however, for this journey was critical. If they were off with their calculations by the slightest amount, this could translate into an error of many miles. This kind of error would have them missing South Georgia entirely and heading out into the open ocean.


In the small boat, which pitched and rolled in the heavy seas, Worsely was held steady by two shipmates while he sighted the sun between thick gray clouds. The horizon which is also necessary for a position calculation, had to be estimated due to the large swells. As the boat was pounded by wind and waves, he calculated at the bottom of the boat and consulted the tables in his Nautical Almanac. Over the 17 days, which they were at sea, Worsely was only able to take four sightings.

Despite the overwhelming odds against success, on May 10,1916 the James Caird landed on South Georgia Island.The boat which was beginning to fall apart, the lack of fresh drinking water, and ill health of the crew forced Shackleton to land on the West side, while the whaling stations, and rescue, were on the East side.

Tim

A bump of an interesting topic from 5 years ago.

The Big dipper over Mt. Adams this morning. Snagged it off the web cam here www.MtAdams.tv

Great photo! Can I ask what exposure settings were used?

Duh, just re-read, a web cam shot. Never mind my previous dumb question. [emoji13]