Not sure if this would be considered formation flying, but looking for some tips on flying with other planes. A friend from the airport has a 172 and we may do some exploring together this weekend. Mulling the trip over, I realize I know nothing about travel with another plane. Most of our flights will be in uncontrolled airspace, planes are roughly the same speed.

A few questions:
-- unless both planes are exactly the same speed, flying side-by-side doesn't make sense. If one plane is ahead, only one person has the other in sight. Use altitude separation for safety? How much?
-- If one plane is faster, how far ahead do you get before you circle back? Not looking for a specific number, just 'hours vs. minutes' type guidance.
-- I assume I will leave radio on 126.7 and monitor 123.2, then switch to 123.45 for chatter. Correct?
-- Position reports and communication with MF or traffic frequency can be "call sign plus one", correct? We won't likely enter any control zones, but I assume we would organize ourselves with enough spacing to contact tower separately.
-- Takeoffs are easy, both planes can taxi to the end of the runway and the second plane takes off when safe but what about landing at uncontrolled? Just ensure enough separation before entering the pattern that the first plane can be clear before the second on short final?

I'm sure I'm missing some important rules, any insights appreciated.

Allan

When I fly with friends, one takes the lead, and the other flies in trail off to one side (usually the right) at about the same altitude. The person in the lead chooses the route and navigates, and the person following stays out of the way, maintaining visual contact at all times. We are rarely closer than perhaps 1/4 mile, and use gentle turns. The radio stays quiet most of the time.

If one plane is much faster, we meet at the agreed upon destination and tell lies. If you are faster, exaggerate how long you have been there. If you are slower, talk about the cool thing you saw on the ground and how you loitered to check it out.

122.75 is the approved air-air frequency, at least in the US. Lots of people use 123.45, but it does have other assigned purposes (polar routes, etc).

I've never heard anybody say plus one. Usually I'll say "flight of 2".

I don't try for formation takeoffs or landings. We establish separation and do normal takeoffs and landings. Just another day fitting into the pattern.

ADS-B out and in is seriously mind blowing in this situation.

It prevents this in the backcountry when flying with a buddy or more:

"hey, where are you?"
"by the bend in the river just beyond the lake"
"the hourglass shaped lake?"
"yeah, maybe"
"what's your altitude?"
"3000'"
"hmmm, me too"
"ok, you stay there and I'll fly at 2500 until I see you"
"what's your heading?"
and on and on and on..

I'm no expert, but I fly with other airplanes a couple times a week. Here is a few things that are helpful:

-Know the capabilities of the other aircraft and pilot/s. Get a feel for the habits and judgement of the other pilot/s before you jump into tight formation. Don't take anything for granted until you really get to know the other pilot. Communication is key.

- Brief your flight beforehand.
Discuss who will take lead. If both pilots have similar experience/knowledge of the area it is common to put the slower airplane in the lead. This way the lead can fly at normal cruise or maneuvering speeds, and the trailing plane can catch up or slow down as necessary. Otherwise, the pilot with more knowledge of the area/mission is a good choice. If you switch leads during the flight make sure it is communicated.
Discuss communications and frequencies. Consider a plan for loss of communication.
Discuss the responsibilities of each pilot. Usually the lead will make all CTAF and ATC calls, and be responsible for when to switch frequencies. Lead will communicate intentions, turns, heading changes, hazards to the others. Lead needs to be more vigilant watching for other traffic and obstacles as a good portion of the wing man's attention will be focused on the lead plane. Lead needs to be predictable, i.e. avoid sudden unexpected maneuvers. Wing man's job is to keep the plane ahead in sight, and avoid hitting the plane ahead. Keep the lead informed of your relative position, let lead know you are out of his way if he needs to maneuver, position yourself to the outside of turns when flying close. Consider wake turbulence coming off the other plane. Avoid over running, or "boxing in" the lead plane. Besides pulling power, you can always make S turns, or climb to slow down. Besides adding power, you can cut corners, descend, or just ask the lead to slow down if you need to catch up.
Discuss take off and join up plan. If flying close formation we will take off side by side, staggered with the trailing plane on the outside of the crosswind turn. Otherwise the lead plane takes off and makes a shallow climb and turn that allows #2 to catch up by climbing steeper and cutting the corner.
Discuss route of flight and any cautions such as wires, towers, airspace, TFR's, etc.
Discuss the destination/s, plan for landings, and any cautions at the destination airstrip. Landings can be made side by side staggered (if the strip is long and wide) or spaced out (#2 extends downwind). Other options are #1 lands, and #2 makes a low pass and go around, or #2 circles until #1 gives the all clear. #1 lands midfield, #2 lands on the numbers.

Radio call for 2 ship flight: just add "flight of two" after your normal call sign. If you split up before entering the pattern (or on take off), then make your calls individually.

If you get separated, stagger your altitudes, and head for a known location/landmark. Faster plane can fly a curved course to allow the slower to catch up.

Be predictable, communicate, and keep situational awareness. Flying with other planes is a blast, and can be much safer in some situations, such as exploring remote areas. Plus you always have someone to try the landing first!

albravo wrote:A few questions:
-- unless both planes are exactly the same speed, flying side-by-side doesn't make sense. If one plane is ahead, only one person has the other in sight. Use altitude separation for safety? How much?
-- If one plane is faster, how far ahead do you get before you circle back? Not looking for a specific number, just 'hours vs. minutes' type guidance.

I like to fly in a loose formation, rather than have the faster go ahead. Then you can talk on the radio and point out notable items you see on the way.

albravo wrote:-- I assume I will leave radio on 126.7 and monitor 123.2, then switch to 123.45 for chatter. Correct?

The official frequency, as has been pointed out, is 122.75. 123.45 is very common. So is 123.425.

albravo wrote:-- Position reports and communication with MF or traffic frequency can be "call sign plus one", correct? We won't likely enter any control zones, but I assume we would organize ourselves with enough spacing to contact tower separately.

"Flight of two" can be used at controlled or non-controlled airports.

albravo wrote:-- Takeoffs are easy, both planes can taxi to the end of the runway and the second plane takes off when safe but what about landing at uncontrolled? Just ensure enough separation before entering the pattern that the first plane can be clear before the second on short final?

Depends on what you mean be "clear". My group is 3-6 other STOL aircraft, so we'll generally have the first one land long and continue their roll to the end, repeat with shorter touchdown zones as necessary. Then we taxi back together.

excellent replies. thanks all.

allan

Just one comment about loose formation flight...

I fly a tanden airplane, where I sit on the centerline... And in that plane, I prefer to fly the #2 position off to the left side of lead, because if lead has to take evasive action because of other traffic, it will more likely involve a right turn (yielding to traffic on the right, while still keeping them in sight, etc.).

But that's if you're flying a tandem airplane. As others pointed out, if you're flying from the left seat of a side-by-side, it's a lot easier to keep the lead airplane in sight if it's out your left front, so you fly your #2 position off the the right side of lead.

When I was in the Army, we had some rules of thumb we used for formation flying. Any time you flew within 10 rotor-disks (equivalent to 10 wingspans) of another aircraft in the flight, you were to focus 100% of your attention on the aircraft with which you were flying formation. Further out that that was not really formation flight, but a "loose trail" that allowed a little more relaxation. In the formation flights that I led, I found it was far easier for the folks to do maintain a tight formation (3-5 rotor-disk separation) than a loose one (8-10 rotor-disks).

I once led a flight of six OH-58A helicopters on a formation cross-country from Ft Ord, CA (Monterey area) to the army depot in Corpus Christi, TX for major overhaul and conversion to OH-58D models. Then we took a commercial flight to Ft Polk, LA and picked up replacement aircraft for our unit, and flew formation back to Ft Ord. (Fun trip, lots of good "over a beer" stories from that one...)

We flew pretty much the entire flight in 3-disk formation (separation distance was about 3 rotor-disks). Every time I gave the order, we rotated the lead position – the trail aircraft would move up to take lead. This was not to give the lead aircraft a break, but rather to give the trail aircraft a break! The further back you are in a tight multi-ship formation, the greater the "yo-yo" effect of any minor change made by any pilot ahead of you. The person flying trail sometimes gets a really good workout – especially if there's some turbulence! A 2-knot deceleration by lead could result in a 10+ knot deceleration by trail, followed quickly by a 20-knot acceleration to rejoin the formation, then another 10-knot deceleration to maintain position. I had a bunch of newer pilots with me on the flight, so it was great experience, and by the time we got back from the trip, that 3-disk formation was pretty much "rock steady" for hours at a time.

(As any military pilot will know, the "other reason" for doing this was to keep the entire 6-ship formation pretty tight... As the trail aircraft, it was easy to get lazy, and back off far enough that you were basically flying formation on the formation itself, not the #5 aircraft. But if you knew you would have to move up to lead on command, you tended to keep up with the formation, you had to keep it pretty tight. You didn't want to get caught a mile behind the formation when the order came to take over lead... Death before dishonor, and ANYTHING before embarrassment in front of your peers!

As luck would have it, it was just two of us so we both piled into my plane. I learned a ton about flying in marginal VFR from a more experienced pilot but nothing at all about flying in formation. Next time.