I have a "Tote Goat" (late 60'-early 70's) utility like motorcycle that I'd like to take to Cabin Creek or Idaho Backcountry airstrips. Anyone know of a "OFFICIAL" prohibition of this. Weighs about 200 lbs and has a Continental
single cylinder 4 cycle motor. Will climb a very steep grade hauling lots of stuff.
They were built for the Forest Service and Military . I'd like to add a picture ,
how do I add it as attachment ???? Thanks [/img]

Any airstrip in the wilderness areas are going to be subject to restrictions. Unless I'm mistaken "motorized or mechanized transport of any kind, including mountain bicycles, hang gliders, and wheeled carts" are not permitted.

I haven't heard anyone mention totegoats in years! My cousins used to own several, us kids were always blasting arond the cowfiled on them, as well as going into the Olympics with the grownups on them back in the 60's and early 70's. Everyone kinda transitioned into Trail 90's as we got bigger. But them tote goats sure were a lot of fun.
I see where someone overseas is making and importing modern versions of the mini-trail 70. Is anyone manufacturing and selling tote-goats these days or their smaller siblings, the "mini-bike"? I remember when you could buy a frame & a set of plans for one of those out of popular mechanics or even the back of a comic book, and rob the Briggs & Stratton engine off an old lawnmower for power. Ah, those were the days.

Eric (showin' my age...)

Any strip in the Frank Church River of No Return Wilderness Area is no motors. If you join a trail crew in central Idaho, you'll be one of a handful of people in the world who will know how to sharpen a cross cut saw, as chainsaws are not allowed.

Airplanes were grandfathered in, as were some other users...that's why you'll see motorized equipment on ranches within the wilderness boundary and jet boats on the Main Salmon.

We've got a pretty good thing going in Idaho, and it's not out of the question that we could loose it. Seeing as how there is already significant pressure to get the airplanes out of the wilderness areas, pushing the issue by bringing a motorcycle in on an airplane is going to be bad for everyone who flies.

There is also the interesting situation of being ordered to remove your motorized vehicle, without using the motor. I recall one Forest Service LEO relaying how some poor sob who jeeped into the wilderness area ended up having to hire a team of clydesdale horses to pull his jeep back out when he got caught. Would have been cheaper to leave the jeep, but if he did that, he was going to jail.

crazy world

Hammer,

Nobody's going to jail for leaving a Jeep in the woods. You might get a bill from the agency for the cost of removal, and THEY picked the means.....

As Hammer said, ALL BIG W Wilderness areas in the Lower 48 have prohibition on motorized vehicles. A very few of the strips may lie at least partially on private land, and there are a couple Jeeps, tractors, etc in some of those places, but they don't leave the private ground.

Don't even think about it, in other words. Hammer's right--its an uphill battle keeping access as it is, don't make it worse...please.

MTV

I have seen a mtn bike at Moose Creek but he kept it on the strip. Used it to go up to the FS cabins to get drinking water. At Moose Creek they clip the stip with horse drawn equipment.

Tim

Is anyone manufacturing and selling tote-goats these days or their smaller siblings, the "mini-bike"?

here is the ultimate elk packing machine.
rokon rangers http://www.rokon.com/

The tote goat was the first motorcycle i had when i was twelve. Never even heard anybody mention one since. But these rokons sure seem to be the way to go.

Nobody's going to jail for leaving a Jeep in the woods. You might get a bill from the agency for the cost of removal, and THEY picked the means.....

Ya, you're probably right. Makes a better story though...

It's a freaking miracle airplanes are allowed in the Wilderness at all, and I can see how lots of folks think it's not right. That might not make sense to some people, but spend a couple months living without motors and you might change your mind. There's a lot more to it than just some philosophical ideology...it changes the way the world looks.

I had a couple friends who lived in the Gospel Hump Wilderness on a homestead that was grandfathered in. When the Wilderness was established there were no motors at the homestead, so that's the way it stayed. Kerosene lamps to read by, earthen cellars to cool food, double-bit axes, cross cut saws and mules to stock wood for the winter. The nearest road was a three hour hike for a nineteen-year-old, with the equivalent elevation gain and loss as climbing to the top of the Empire State building, then going back to the bottom, then climbing halfway back to the top. After that it was a two-hour drive on dirt roads before hitting the pavement, one mile away from the Shortbranch Saloon in Riggins.

I can count the number of people I've ever envied on one hand, and they were two of them. It was truly a world apart...much more than just another chunk of land without engine noise.

I'm mighty glad the airstrips in Idaho are available to us, but it's really a direct affront to what the Wilderness stands for...a world set apart from our modern society and all it's intangible stresses.

It's important to remember that not everyone sees the magic in aviation. We have a very real responsibility to behave in a way that does not give credence to the viewpoint that airplanes do not belong in the Wilderness. There are a lot more people wanting us out than wanting us in, and we got the long end of the stick for once.

Yea, and all of those people that want to banish airplanes from the backcountry shouldn't be allowed to carry sat phones or gps or anything electronic. If they're not going to allow us to have modern equipment then they shouldn't be allowed any either.

Student BCP wrote:Yea, and all of those people that want to banish airplanes from the backcountry shouldn't be allowed to carry sat phones or gps or anything electronic. If they're not going to allow us to have modern equipment then they shouldn't be allowed any either.

So technology is the issue?

Yea, and all of those people that want to banish airplanes from the backcountry shouldn't be allowed to carry sat phones or gps or anything electronic. If they're not going to allow us to have modern equipment then they shouldn't be allowed any either.

Yup, that's a good point. I know for a fact that the SAR community would love the elimination cell phones, sat phones, and anything else that makes it easier to cry for help rather than grab your bootstraps and get out of whatever you got yourself into. Last weekend I monitored the helicopter rescue of a woman who called 911 from her cell phone because she was lost (200 yards off a major trail) and one of her phucking dogs was "too tired to continue walking." I'm crapping you negative. Unfortunately her cell phone did work, and in our society it's unacceptable to tell someone to solve their own problems...

While I totally agree with Student BCP's statement, if you take any argument to its logical conclusion you end up with an illogical situation. While there is pure black and pure white in the world, most of it is a subtle shade of grey. That any given shade of grey is closer to black than white or vise-versa doesn't mean it's one or the other.

It's important to remember that not everyone sees the magic in aviation. We have a very real responsibility to behave in a way that does not give credence to the viewpoint that airplanes do not belong in the Wilderness. There are a lot more people wanting us out than wanting us in, and we got the long end of the stick for once.

Ok so I will put my 15KW gen in the Scout and my 1938 light set and a few boom boxes, that way along with shooting our guns Surly we will be pleasing the non aviation types.

If it wasnt for aviation in Idaho the tree huggers wouldn't have a place to go. The lodge at mosquito flat was doing just fine with all the family members flying in and bringing supplies until the BLM and a few tree hugger decided the home made lake that Clyde built needed a $1,000,000.00 dam .

After several law suits, now there are roads, bathrooms, and tree huggers, that are now trying to block us from reviving the airstrip

I will stop for now

Ok so I will put my 15KW gen in the Scout and my 1938 light set and a few boom boxes, that way along with shooting our guns Surly we will be pleasing the non aviation types.

If it wasnt for aviation in Idaho the tree huggers wouldn't have a place to go. The lodge at mosquito flat was doing just fine with all the family members flying in and bringing supplies until the BLM and a few tree hugger decided the home made lake that Clyde built needed a $1,000,000.00 dam .

After several law suits, now there are roads, bathrooms, and tree huggers, that are now trying to block us from reviving the airstrip

I will stop for now

???

Hammer wrote:Any strip in the Frank Church River of No Return Wilderness Area is no motors. If you join a trail crew in central Idaho, you'll be one of a handful of people in the world who will know how to sharpen a cross cut saw, as chainsaws are not allowed.

Airplanes were grandfathered in, as were some other users...that's why you'll see motorized equipment on ranches within the wilderness boundary and jet boats on the Main Salmon.

We've got a pretty good thing going in Idaho, and it's not out of the question that we could loose it. Seeing as how there is already significant pressure to get the airplanes out of the wilderness areas, pushing the issue by bringing a motorcycle in on an airplane is going to be bad for everyone who flies.

I ask and everyone responded. Thanks Bill Reid -Tote Gote stays in the hanger

182 STOL driver wrote:I have a "Tote Goat" (late 60'-early 70's) utility like motorcycle that I'd like to take to Cabin Creek or Idaho Backcountry airstrips. Anyone know of a "OFFICIAL" prohibition of this. Weighs about 200 lbs and has a Continental
single cylinder 4 cycle motor. Will climb a very steep grade hauling lots of stuff.
They were built for the Forest Service and Military . I'd like to add a picture ,
how do I add it as attachment ???? Thanks [/img]

182 Stol Driver,

I may be the biggest motorcycle nut on this web page and love the off-road versions the most. Just ran into a couple of Rokon Rangers last week in the Utah backcountry. These were new, very nice.

Although the wilderness areas are off-limits, Idaho has some of the most spectacular riding in the lower 48. It has been said that Idaho has more singletrack trails than all other western states combined. Many years ago, some forward thinking Idahoan's (?) realized what a treasure they had and fought hard to protect it, and it continues to be an uphill battle. The Blue Ribbon Coalition is the foremost advocacy group for multiple use in the country and they deserve much of the credit for preserving the trail system in Idaho.

In short, there are thousands of miles of legal trails to enjoy in potato land!!
Just keep the tote-goat on approved paths and explore til your heart is content.

While the points made about strips inside the wilderness areas are accurate, there are many strips outside the wilderness that are still backcountry strips where a tote goat or other wheeled vehicles are acceptable. Try Atlanta, Graham, Warren, Dixie, Elk City, Upper Loon, etc. These and others all have roads nearby but are still remote and offer decent to excellent riding.

Blackrock makes an excellent point: Find a good map, and learn where the boundaries of big W Wilderness are.

The primary reason that many of those wilderness strips in Idaho are still active is that they were used heavily by the Forest Service for fire suppression. Hence the name Johnson Creek, for example...

The FS was motivated to keep em operational, not us. And, that's the best of all worlds.

MTV

I think the wilderness designations were a good idea that is being twisted to try & keep people out. I went horsebacking into the Buckhorn Wilderness in the Olympics several years ago, and some "back country rangers" (USFS summer/fall help) got on our case about our stock. Can't tie to trees (high-line or picket-pin only), no processed feed, no more than 3 horses (we only had 2), etc. We had a folding stove, they got on our case about burning wood. We informed them that the rules said "no open fires above 3500 feet", not "no wood burning". About that time, a whole herd of horses belonging to a local horse-logger/hunting guide came stampeding thru our camp, and the green-ranger types departed on a quest to trail them & chew somebody's ass for their misdeeds. I hope they found the owner, the ass-chewing might have gone in an opposite direction from what they had planned as he's a pretty salty character.

Eric

chrisg wrote:Any airstrip in the wilderness areas are going to be subject to restrictions. Unless I'm mistaken "motorized or mechanized transport of any kind, including mountain bicycles, hang gliders, and wheeled carts" are not permitted.

I checked "no motorized " transportion -aircraft ok. In the wilderness area
May take the "TOTE~GOAT to New Mexico ranch.

hotrod150 wrote:, no processed feed
Eric

What's wrong with processed feed?

tom