It reads like a case of mismanagement: http://www.oregonlive.com/business/inde ... space.html

It's such a cool place. I'd hate to see them go under.

I saw that this morning. Sounds like they are fighting over $50,000 owed on the Spruce Goose. If the Aero club were to reposes it, I think it would cost more than that to get the Goose out of the building.

That being said, I think Dell Smith's empire is quickly imploding. He just got 250 million from Erickson for the helicopter department. I wonder where that went??

I would hate to see the museum be dismantled. A real treasure.

Like many museums, they get operational funds from benefactors or grants, in this case the owner of Evergreen Intl Airlines. Ticket sales are probably a small portion of the costs. They'd prob get a multiple of the currect traffic though if they were located in Portland rather than McMinnville.

I used to hear rumors that Evergreen was the model for Air America as the supplier for the private air force that operated out of Cambodia during the war in Vietnam. That supposedly was the heyday of Evergreen Aviation, with the assumption that they have been on a slow, but steady decline since that time. Whetter true or not, the loss of the Museum would be a sad time for Macminville. I learned to fly at the airport across the street 40+ years ago.

Air America was just one of a number of "airlines" that operated under thinly veiled operating certificates during the Vietnam era....

If you're ever in the Phoenix/Tucson area, the interstate that goes between those two goes right past Pinal Air Park, which is Evergreen's heavy maintenance base. That's where the space shuttle transporter 747 lives when not moving a shuttle, and there are a LOT of airliners and other airplanes stored there and undergoing heavy maintenance there.

That is where Evergreen undertook the restoration of many of the airplanes that now reside in the Museum. For many years, I spent a week every spring on that base for LE refresher training. Evergreen at one time had a contract with the Saudi govt. to provide training facilities for the Saudi royal family guards. After that, they leased out those facilities to other outfits. During one of those earlier training periods, I noted a B 17 parked on the secure ramp area, and wandered over to the office during a break to see if I could look closer. They put me in touch with the Chief of Maintenance, whose babies were those resto warbirds. He arranged for a tour, and several in my class got to roam around inside the B 17, and several other projects and aircraft. And, it was "Go ahead and climb around in there, Guys". Really a treat.

Each year after that, till the gent retired, I'd go get a tour of what was being restored then. I saw the B 17 progress, gaining a turret every year, plus progress in the restoration, and got to sit at every station in the plane at one time or another, including all the turrets--what an experience. Saw a ME 109 going through the resto process, and a number of already restored fighters and warbirds. One year, they were filming one of the low budget movies some of these birds appeared in, and we'd be out on the shooting range while a Mustang and the ME 109 were duking it out overhead....my scores reflected the distraction, but I did manage to qualify.....

That museum is a wonderful place and I'd hate to see it die or minimized. The Museum was built as a memorial to Mike, Del's son. Mike was the one who pushed his Dad to keep many of these airplanes and restore them, and after his death, Del decided to make these airplanes a memorial to Mike.

Hopefully, they'll get it all sorted out without losing a lot of aircraft. Private museums, particularly aviation museums, are expensive to maintain.....

But, this is a good one.

MTV

When we visited we didn't have enough money left to see the museum after the fleecing we took at the water park. Wow.

gbflyer wrote:When we visited we didn't have enough money left to see the museum after the fleecing we took at the water park. Wow.

You went to the water park FIRST??? And you call yourself a pilot?

MTV

Don't like hearing any bad news on the museum. In the '80's I was employed by Dell Smith at his airline as a 727/Dc8 jockey. It was the worst job I've ever had including ditch digger, bus boy, and rendering plant worker. His empire was created from many hard working people's backs. I have friends still employed by the airline and they have missed a paycheck a time or two. I'm always leery of any company that tells their employee's how much they care for them them dump on them on a regular basis. Dell's girlfriend used to get up at meeting's in McMinnville and lead little chants and expect the attending employee's to participate. It was a job I had no reservations leaving. Was definitely a strange time, I used to go to the mx base in Marana all the time and see interesting things. I did fly all over the world for Dell. The upside was I really enjoyed Oregon and when in ground school I would rent a car and go exploring.

mtv wrote:

gbflyer wrote:When we visited we didn't have enough money left to see the museum after the fleecing we took at the water park. Wow.

You went to the water park FIRST??? And you call yourself a pilot?

MTV

You cut it, I'll pile it.

The museum was closed when we got there so the water park looked cool. The little boy had fun. It was interesting in that it was like $30 per person or something, and then if you needed a towel you had to buy one for another $30. Crazy stuff, it was like I never left Alaska. By the time we got done the museum had opened but I was still pissed off so we looked at the Goose through the window and left.

Reading some of the Yelp reviews confirms the "Nickel & Dime" costs involved with this museum. $30.00 to get in and another $50.00 to get the grand tour of the Goose??? Sheesh, I'd walk away too! How about one flat rate to get in and see it all? Like $40.00??

58Skylane wrote:Reading some of the Yelp reviews confirms the "Nickel & Dime" costs involved with this museum. $30.00 to get in and another $50.00 to get the grand tour of the Goose??? Sheesh, I'd walk away too! How about one flat rate to get in and see it all? Like $40.00??

Bear in mind this is a PRIVATELY owned museum, not a government subsidized one. It costs money to run these things.

One of my all time favorite museums is the International Museum of Spying in Washington DC. It too is privately owned and ten years ago, it cost $25 to get in. I got off shift at 3 PM and they closed at 6. I went back three days to see it all....and it was worth it. I overheard all kinds of folks grousing about how expensive I was, after all, those museums on the Mall don't charge anything....

MTV

mtv wrote:One of my all time favorite museums is the International Museum of Spying in Washington DC. It too is privately owned and ten years ago, it cost $25 to get in.

My experience with for-profit museums has generally not been good, but my nephew wanted to go to the spy museum. I have to say that I share your enthusiasm for it. Fantastic place.

I have a feeling that the situation is going to get a lot worse, before it gets better. Smith's creditors want their money, and they'll have no scruples in trying to get it... regardless of the 'historical' or 'cultural' significance of the airplanes Mr. Smith used as collateral.

On Admission fees... I recently went to NYC for the first time with a friend, and naturally we were interested in seeing the Empire State Building. It was $27 to get to the 80th Floor, and another $17 to get to the top! Fortunately, we ran into a couple that advised us not to spend the money; the Observation Deck was fogged in, and it was zero visibility at the top!

Instead, we went to see the Intrepid Air and Space Museum. The freight there was $31, which included viewing the Shuttle Enterprise. THAT was a great time; got to see my 2nd F-14 Tomcat close up, saw a Kfir for the first time, and of course, the Enterprise...

Not to worry, though... I got some awesome views of the Empire State Building from my friend's apartment building, surrounded in fog, and at night!

mtv wrote:

58Skylane wrote:Reading some of the Yelp reviews confirms the "Nickel & Dime" costs involved with this museum. $30.00 to get in and another $50.00 to get the grand tour of the Goose??? Sheesh, I'd walk away too! How about one flat rate to get in and see it all? Like $40.00??

Bear in mind this is a PRIVATELY owned museum, not a government subsidized one. It costs money to run these things.

One of my all time favorite museums is the International Museum of Spying in Washington DC. It too is privately owned and ten years ago, it cost $25 to get in. I got off shift at 3 PM and they closed at 6. I went back three days to see it all....and it was worth it. I overheard all kinds of folks grousing about how expensive I was, after all, those museums on the Mall don't charge anything....

MTV

I hear you on that, Mike. I guess I'm one of the ones that would rather pay one fee at the gate. I never been to the Evergreen Museum, so I'm not sure how they have their price menu posted.

Maybe their reason for charging $50.00 for the grand tour of the Goose is to help keep foot traffic and rif raf from going through it and wearing it out? I dunno.

I get the costs involved. Liability Insurance and the elictric bill alone can't be cheap. Are some aviation museums set up as an LLC? Especially the ones that you can walk through the aircraft?

Kevin wrote: It was the worst job I've ever had including ditch digger, bus boy, and rendering plant worker. His empire was created from many hard working people's backs. I have friends still employed by the airline and they have missed a paycheck a time or two..

I've got a few friends that have worked for one branch or another and they all say that exact same thing! I did some dealing with them when I was working at the overhaul shop and it was always really cheap and mismanaged. The guys in the restoration end of it were usually great, but their hands were tied. I always figured it was a shining example of "just because you have money, doesn't make you management material".

I sure hope the museum doesn't get swallowed... it would be awful to see that collection broken up and shipped off....

Wouldn't it be wonderful if one of those wealthy .com folks would pick it up and keep it intact?
Or the state of OR at fire sale prices to keep it open as a tourist draw?

I know, dreaming. I, too, think it'd sure be nice not to see it parted out!