My business here in FL was booming in 2005 and 2006, and even the first half of 2007, so I went out and bought my first airplane, a 1960 Cessna 180. I went on to throw a bunch of money at it to make it even better and I love it. It's a very capable aircraft. My wife and I have flown it to AZ, UT, NM, CO, and WY. I've flown a couple hours with Lavar Wells at Redtail Aviation in Moab and landed at Mineral Bottom and Delores Point in the 180. Big fun! I want to do more of that!

However, the last half of 2007, all of 2008, and especially 2009 were the worst years I've had in business since I used to deliver newspapers as a kid. And it doesn't look at all that things are going to turn around here in FL for a long time as far as my business is concerned. Therefore, my retirement nest egg has gotten quite a bit smaller than it was and I'm having to begin retirement a couple years before I'd planned on.

That being said, I'm now in the position that, although the 180 is great, it makes a lot of economic sense as a new retiree to downgrade to an aircraft that will basically do what the 180 will do at less cost. That's why I've been researching PA-22's and 22/20's (among others). I need "the most bang for the buck."

I can certainly appreciate economic downturns. However, if you can hold on to the 180 for a few more months you will get a better price for it. Nothing wrong with a Tripacer for back country flying, I've taken mine to most of the popular spots in Idaho. The only thing that was occasionally an issue was the johnson bar brakes. Something really irritating about not having toe brakes.

Look for one that has not had the wings chopped, aka Madras tips, you need all the wing area you can get. I have the Stewart tips on mine, they look good and they give you lift all the way to the tips. VG's are also a good and inexpensive mod. When I got mine it had 150hp now 160hp not much difference really. As others have said before prop pitch is everything.

They are really great little airplanes.

Jim

Granted, low and slow, you have severely limited your options. But with my plane, at 7500' AGL, power/prop all the way back, full flaps, yoke all the way back, I have a GPS forward speed of 40kts, and am descending at 1200'/min(about 15 mph).

With those numbers, hopefully a survivable forced landing will be an option.

Gary

Planeman,

I used to work with Lavar out of Moab.

The pa22 is a good airplane, but have you considered a 170 or 172.
There are some pretty reasonable ones out there right now.

I used to go in and out of Mineral Canyon with my 'OL 67 172H 145 HP with Bush STOL.

Landing was a lot easier than takeoff but I could do both okay in the summer, even with the soft spot in the middle of the runway.

Winter was no problem.

The 170 or 172 is more comfortable for me than the Tripacer.

I think the older (60's to early 70's) widebody 172's are lighter than the later ones (Late 70's on up).

Another option may be a Stinson??????

Yeah I forgot about the toe brakes... I did the toe brake mod on both my PA 22's.. flew the johnson bar only a couple times before I ordered the kit... Hard to turn around at the top of the runway at Cayuse creek with a johnson bar and not being able to lock one wheel...that being said I certainly would prefer the 180 in every situation... The tripacer was a bit cramped up front.. and after the toe brake mod you get less leg room...but if I had to sell my maule,which I consider a pacer on steroids, I definitely would be looking at another flying "milk stool"....check out Short wing piper club.. they have a great monthly magazine and most short wingers that are for sale are in the magazine...or on their web site...

Good info all, think I'll wait until Sun N Fun and try to sit in some different airplane models to try 'em on for size. Thanks for the help.

Hi Bill,
Not to be nosey, but whereabouts in NM are you retiring to? The reason I am asking is because we have some property on a strip nestled in the Sacremento mountains. Although it is a beautiful strip, the areas management and timing have never really allowed it to mature into anything. Not that I would want to see it turn into a congested air park, but it would be nice to see a neighbor with an airplane sometime . Anyways, retirement is still a ways out for me, but I do intend to start building a hangar / cabin there next summer. The strip is in the 'town' called timberon and is about a mile long at an elevation of about 6900'.
BTW, I own a supercub and a c-180, and have always viewed the (big engined) PA 22 as an airplane that fit right in between those two. I have several friends with them and they all love them.

Take care, Rob

Back when I had my 170, I flew quite a lot with a buddy who owned a PA-22/20-150. Hs airplane took off about like mine, climbed & cruised faster, and landed in about the same distance or maybe a skosh more. His had stock wings-- with squared or extended tips and/or VG's it probably would have done better at both TO's & landings. When I was ready to sell the 170, I looked at some 150 160 & 180 horse Pacers before deciding on a C150/150TD. When I look at the performance potential & the huge baggage area with the rear seat out, I still sometimes kick myself for not getting one.

Eric

I've seen tri-pacers for sale with 8.50's on the mains and a 7.00 on the nose. I'm guessing this is a field approval. I don't think I've seen an STC for this.
I believe Landes has an STC for 8.50's all the way around and the nose fork for it. Does anyone have any info on this or have done the mod? Landes STC with 337 for the nose?

Can a 7.00 be put on the nose with the stock fork?

Hi Rob,

My wife and I bought lot 8 on the airstrip in Timberon in Feb. 09 and built a hangar over the summer of 09. Small world! Timberon is really beautiful, and it's great flying around NM. At least three other lots also sold last summer on the runway. We met all three owners. One guy has a SuperCub, one guy has an Aeronca Chief, and I'm not sure about the third. Should be lots more activity there soon. We should have our small cabin finished there this year. Can't wait.

Don't tell anybody, though, I wouldn't want it to get crowded!

GroundLooper wrote:I've seen tri-pacers for sale with 8.50's on the mains and a 7.00 on the nose. I'm guessing this is a field approval. I don't think I've seen an STC for this. I believe Landes has an STC for 8.50's all the way around and the nose fork for it. Does anyone have any info on this or have done the mod? Landes STC with 337 for the nose? Can a 7.00 be put on the nose with the stock fork?

I don't know... the prop is awful close to the nosewheel on a TriPacer, even with the stock tire which I assume is a 600x6. Hard to believe it'd clear with an 850 on there.
No offense to anyone, but its hard to believe how much better the somewhat toad-like TriPacer looks on tailwheel gear.

Eric

I can't believe nobody has bought this plane yet. I sure wish I had the money right now. Looks like a decent plane.

http://www.barnstormers.com/listing_ima ... 8ab51ea361

planeman2010,
It is a smallworld! and it's great to hear of the recent activity in Timberon, I have been away since before you bought, due to a career move, but will be returning soon to get the cabin and hangar back in to the works. Looking in my Timberon files, I believe I have your contact info, glad I never used it I own the two lots on the southeast end of the strip. I will send you a PM with my contact info. BTW was lot 8 one of Jrs?

Take care, Rob

Holy Pacer/Tri Pacer!!!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1953-Pip ... 3efcca61a7

wow thats one spendy pacer!

well it IS on ebay. probably won't see that one on barnstormers or trade a plane where pilots are..... they're probably hoping for some dunce to call with too much money in his wallet....then again maybe i should have gotten more than 24000 for my pa 22. looking at the list though it's listed as a 135 but has a O 320 and a shitload of stuff but in the end it's still a pacer and you can get a lot more plane for 60,000 than that.

It's on Trade a Plane

planeman2010, keep your 180 if you can find any way at all to do so. Looks like you've spent a good deal of money on it for extras, you know it inside and out, and it's set up the way you want it. More likely than not you will get spanked when you go to sell it, and it is very hard to go backwards into something like an unknown Tri-Pacer...which I am not knocking, by the way...just experience from having done what you are thinking about doing.

gb

Planeman, I would have to agree with previous poster, if there is any way to hang on to the 180 do it. You know what you have, and probably hard to beat it as an all around plane. I'm sure the pacer is great, but few planes have the versatility of the 180.

SixTwoLeemer wrote:Holy Pacer/Tri Pacer!!!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1953-Pip ... 3efcca61a7

"Custom half [yolk] on pilot's side"

I like my yolks fried hard.