Yeah... Or trim.

I never forgot to set trim in a C180 or C185, but I sure screwed the pooch in my Tcart on Edo floats by not resetting trim for takeoff. Once...

I got on step, broke loose of the water, then suddenly pitched up into the air in a wallow, just shy of a stall. Luckily I got it shoved forward and hit the water fairly level, but hit hard. That was really dumb on my part, and surprising in how hard that airplane pitched nose up into the air.

It's been a habit for a long, long time now to set the trim for take-off as part of my shut down and post flight flow.

But, on wheels in the Skywagon, you'd think they'd have felt the elevator forces and need for trim when they were on the takeoff roll and building up speed.

Gump

GumpAir wrote:It's been a habit for a long, long time now to set the trim for take-off as part of my shut down and post flight flow. Gump

Right on Gump. In my case I do it as part of my landing routine; flaps up, cowl flaps open, tailwheel unlocked, neutralize trim.

I certainly forgot to reset the trim a few times before I made it part of my routine . It pitched up on takeoff but I could stop the pitch with significant forward pressure and reduction in power, then roll roll roll roll roll roll (etc.) the wheel. If you couldn't overcome the pitch up you'd never be able to do a go-around.

Oh, and setting the trim IS part of the Before Take-Off checklist which we all adhere to religiously . Okay so I don't set the parking brake (Step 1), but you can bet I check the stabilizer trim. After all it is the stabilizer trim and not just some little tab on the elevator.

Grassstrippilot wrote:What's the cost for the new Cessna fix?

Free for the pilot side. Covers nearly every Cessna ever made. The passenger side will cost you though. I was quoted about a grand. Some here have managed to get it done for less then that.

And for those who might be wondering, although it resembles an inertia reel seat belt it's not. It is a locked and unlocked reel, and its default is locked. So no concern needed over whether or not an inertia mechanism will work.

I'm making my copilot side appointment today. Kinda embarrassed I haven't already done it.

Yeah, that accident sucked. The weather was forecast to be stormy, but it cleared the night before and was turning out to be a beautiful day. They had just started the flour bomb drops, and people we getting ready for the spot landing contest. I showed up with the wife 10 minutes after it happened, and they had just closed down the airport. The Hampton Airfield staff rushed over to the crash, because they saw the stall on takeoff, but there was nothing they could do. Hung out for a while, helped put some of the other planes away in the hangers, and went home. Closed down the airport until the investigators could arrive. Not sure if its open today yet, haven't looked.
I heard the sirens before we left the house that morning, but didn't think much of it.

Yeah, we did the pilot side on all the club planes when it came out and the previous owner had my pilot side done. Just not the right side. If you don't mind, let us know what yours ends up costing.

A1Skinner wrote:I have a safe-T-stop and find it very easy to use. Get in, move my seat up, reach down and slide it against the seat leg and tighten. Takes very little time or thought to do.

In reading the instructions yesterday, it kept repeating in bold print not to have it touching the seat leg. Not sure why. Might be as was mentioned above about feeling the seat give a little so you know there is an issue.

This all has gotten me to thinking. In an emergency, could this be liability? A hindrance to getting out of the aircraft quickly? Just thinking.

I think it was Bob who told the story of taking off in his 182 and the copilot seat slid back and his brother grabbed onto the yoke. Bob was able to win the fight and tell us the story. Putting that lock on both seats is really needed, reflexes make you want to grab onto something.

I have Safetstops on both seats, and my IA insisted on putting a crossbar in the track for the pilot's seat, too. I'm waiting for the parts to come in for the "free" Cessna fix; I was told that to do it on the pax side would cost about $1800, so I'll stick with the Safetstop on that side.

Cary

My "54" 180 has a hand hold on the top of the instrument panel but the newer ones don't. Also I have a strap handle at the top of the door post for getting in and out. Might just tell the passenger to grab that when taking off.

A note of caution: A couple years ago, there was a very similar accident near Anchorage with a Cessna 180. Initially, everyone guessed that the pilot or copilot seat slid aft. The NTSB final report noted that the pilot seat was found to be essentially welded in place by the post crash fire, in a forward position. And the Investigator noted that the copilot seat was also in a normal position.

It's always risky to jump to conclusions in these deals, especially when everyone dies.

That said, installing seat stops of some kind are a great idea, regardless of what caused this accident.

MTV

MTV, what was the cause of the Anchorage crash?

I had a similar but opposite episode some time ago. I was volunteered to take the official photographer for a canoe/kayak event up to do some shooting on very short notice. I was not happy with this deal until I saw the photographer, a very pretty well endowed young thing. Well what's a man to do, every now and then you have to stand up and be counted. Well I went through the safety talk and told her not to touch the controls under any circumstances. My copilots seat is securely locked in the full aft position so I knew that would not be a problem. What I did not count on was her all of a sudden leaning forward to get the camera closer to the windshield for a better shot. Lets just say when you are 6ft above the kelp beds and BIG set of hooters get shoved into your Cessna control yokes you have to think fast. I did a hard pull back with a sharp snap to the left then the right on the yoke. She responded instantly in the proper manner then looked at me for a moment then said "Oh I guess I was not supposed to touch the controls with anything". I didn't say a word I just stared at her. I also know that that is the fastest I have ever opened a ladies blouse. When we landed and the photographer stepped out with the top three buttons missing and a good deal of equipment on display my wife was not impressed. We told her the story but to this day I don't think she fully believes me.

CamTom12 wrote:MTV, what was the cause of the Anchorage crash?

Final report here:

http://www.ntsb.gov/aviationquery/brief ... 1434&key=1

MTV

When we landed and the photographer stepped out with the top three buttons missing and a good deal of equipment on display my wife was not impressed.

Can't make stuff like that up.

MTV,

The 180 crash in Alaska you posted is the classic I see almost happen every time I watch airplanes takeoff on a hot day. Pilot tries to climb too fast, pilot tries to go over trees too high, pilot fails to get the nose down to regain pressure airspeed over the wing when over the trees, pilot tries to make a level or climbing turn with insufficient pressure airspeed over the wing.

I have been out of the prep for flight test type instruction for many years. Is the 2013 PTS change that requires "acceleration in ground effect until Vx or Vy as appropriate" having the desired effect yet?

Jim

Video: http://boston.cbslocal.com/2014/09/02/v ... ampton-nh/


The runway is 2100' at 93' MSL. Was a hot day, but nothing a 180 at sealevel couldn't handle. In the video, looks like he was off before midfield to be where he was in the air by those hangers. The pilot had been to the airport many times before, so he knew the runway and the area. Hard to say why it happened.

it does not look like a real steep pitch up like a seat broke loose. You cant tell in the video but it looks like he may have started loosing power as he slowed down pretty quick. Two people and full fuel and I could climb harder than that on floats with a sick engine..

Could but did not. You never know when you will need that energy lost by leaving ground effect sooner than necessary and by going way higher over the trees than necessary. It is hard to teach this stuff because people with considerable horsepower generally don't need it. That is why it is so shocking when they do need it.

Having gone too high and too slow need not have been deadly. He could have made an energy management (descending) turn rather than a climbing and then level turn. The teaching of climbing turns in the pattern can lead to this problem. I understand the need for them, but they were much safer when the pattern was 600.'

After nearly loosing control on take off from L25 airstrip I established a procedure before take off
1- climb in aircraft with door open,seat unlocked,seat belt open ~~~start aircraft .
2-bring seat forward and check pin engages in track and set and lock seat lock on rail ,get seat belt/shoulder harness on and latched.
3-close and latch door prepare for takeoff. Try to see seat is locked - correct if necessary.
This is what we did in Helicopters over 40 years ago .Now I use it in my personal airplane.

Certainly ensuring your seat and the copilot seat is locked in place is essential.

Apparently, that was not the cause of this accident, however:

"The National Transportation Safety Board said Wednesday it has wrapped up its on-scene investigation and will soon write up a preliminary report.

Pilot David Ingalls and passenger Bruce Anderson were killed in the crash, which happened shortly after the plane took off Monday.

Lead investigator Todd Gunther said there is no indication of structural or mechanical problems before the crash.

He said investigators have also been able to determine that both seats were locked during the takeoff and crash. That was a concern because seats in that type of plane have been reported to move before.

Investigators are now analyzing the takeoff and performance of the plane shown on three videos. One was obtained from a witness, and two came from security cameras.

Gunther said some information has been gleaned from the videos already.

"We learned that 320 feet down the runway, it was above the top of the trees before the roll off to the left observed by the airplane," he said."

FWIW

Still good reminders on the seat stops and getting your seats locked up. That has always been one of my paranoias....

MTV