Ok, so the airstrip database hasn't quite come together yet...(I got hung up on the import of the FAA airport data)...but I'm looking for features and/or services you'd like to see on BCP.
Z
What do you want to see on BCP?
Sat Feb 03, 2007 8:54 am
The backcountry and what to have with you?
Zane,
I was thinking of a spot somewhere that we could assemble the info and links, for our well being in the backcountry.
Prepared Pilot
http://www.preparedpilot.com/Survival-Kits/Contents.htm
MPI Outdoor Products
http://www.mpioutdoors.com/main.htm
Like this post by Jr.CubBuilder,
This was written by another fellow, so I'm pasting it in here with his permission. The format won't carry over to this
By Thomas M. Bass
Survival Equipment
Get Serious or Die.
I carry a great deal of survival equipment. Living in Seattle we often take day trips over the Cascade Mountains or 50 miles across open ocean to Vancouver Island. In the summer we have gone to Alaska and the Yukon on floats. We camp out on deserted lakes and are often hundreds of miles from any population center. There are usually two of us in a 1976 Cessna 180. In the summer we are on floats and in the winter we switch to wheels. With the Kenmore STC for weight increase we have a useful load of 1375 on wheels and 1075 on floats. We are never close to full weight on wheels but on floats with full fuel we have 250lbs left for baggage, camping and survival equipment. Because of the remote areas and extreme weather we look at the problem a little differently than most pilots.
Those of us in the lower 48 cross the mountain chains in the left 1/3 of the country. Many of these areas have the same extreme weather and inaccessibility that you find in Alaska. It has astonished me to see fellow aviators who have no survival equipment or the sixty-nine dollar kit from the local aviation store. There is nothing wrong with the sixty nine dollar kit. It is a great starting point. If you fly in any area that is remote you should think about upgrading your survival kit. Remote is defined as anything you can not safely walk out of. If you have broken bones in legs or feet, remote can be less than _ mile from the interstate.
In flying the order of priority is aviate, navigate, and then communicate. In survival it is assess situation, critical first aid, signaling or communication, heat preservation, water procurement, shelter, food procurement and then travel. Unlike the aviation priority the survival order can change based on the situation or the assignment of tasks to other individuals. When you think about survival it becomes simpler if you divide the problem into the reasons people die in accidents. This assumes you are more or less in one piece after you hit the ground. Quantity and the brand of items have been omitted in most cases. This is because the number of people on board, the remoteness of the area and the environment you are flying over causes great variety in the equipment required. Use the check list as a guide, I have everything on the list except for three items eliminated due to cost.
1. Lack of air.
1.1. Time before death, 2 minutes.
1.2. Main cause is drowning.
1.3. Ways to offset.
1.3.1. Life Raft* We carry a four man raft with canopy. Would give you a tent in one minute that could be auto inflated even if you were wounded.
1.3.2. Life Jackets* (Stored in seat pockets)
2. Lack of body temperature.
2.1. Time before death, 30 minutes and up.
2.2. Main cause is exposure to cold water or air without proper clothes or heat.
2.3. Ways to Offset.
2.3.1. Wind proof matches in water proof container.
2.3.2. Starter fuel. Fire paste.
2.3.3. Liquid fuel 22 oz, with camp stove.
2.3.4. Sleeping bags, in waterproof bag.*
2.3.5. Fold up rain coats.
2.3.6. Space blankets. These are about 4 oz of thin aluminum plastic coated material not to be confused with heavy duty thermal blankets.
2.3.7. Candles
2.3.8. Ax, wire saw, fold up saw.
2.3.9. Thermal Blanket 5 x 7 ft or larger with grommets in corners, bright red or orange. 50’ of 1/8 inch nylon line
2.3.10. Heavy blanket.* Stored under right back seat.
2.3.11. Wool socks and gloves
2.3.12. 2 Coats* Stored in small pack under left back seat.
3. Lack of water.
3.1. Time before death, 2 to 14 days, depending on temperature and work load.
3.2. Ways to offset:
3.2.1. On board water.*
3.2.2. Water purification pills
3.2.3. Fold up water container. (2 Gal)
3.2.4. Water purification pump.
3.2.5. Salt water to water hand pump, cost around $600. (Do not carry due to cost)
4. Lack of food.
4.1. Time before death, around 60 days but become very weak after 10 days.
4.2. Ways to offset.
4.2.1. Fishing equipment.
4.2.1.1. Fold up rod, lures, bait, reel and line.
4.2.2. Gun, 12 gauge shotgun with shot and slugs.*
4.2.3. 30 high calorie snacks.
4.2.4. High density rations.
4.2.5. Freeze dried meals.
5. Medical.
5.1. Wound management kit. Includes different cleaning agents for wounds.
5.2. Sutures to close wounds. Read first aid book before cleaning or closing wounds.
5.3. 3 by 3 inch or larger absorbent pads, gauze compress, triangular bandage, wire splint, sterile gel soaked burn dressing and safety pins.
5.4. Neosporin, Benadryl anti inch spray, Ibuprofen, anti constipation pills, Aspirin, Iodine, Chap Stick, Dramamine, Contact, Imodium, sunscreen, ammonia inhalants and other pills that an individual in your crew might require. I buy over the counter drugs that are packaged on cards and throw out the boxes. Paste the directions on back of the card.
5.5. From your doctor get prescription for pain killer, epi-pen (for allergic reaction to bee sting) and antibiotic.
5.6. Tweezers, medical scissors, thermometer, rubber gloves, and flashlight.
5.7. Poison extractor kit, for snake bites. The desert is full of rattle snakes.
6. Signal equipment.
6.1. Signal mirror.
6.2. Strobe light
6.3. Marine handheld radio. I use the Garmin 720 for 4 reasons. It is small, water proof, and uses alkaline batteries that are interchangeable with my flash lights and Garmin 295.
6.4. Handheld GPS. Being able to communicate your exact location is critical.
6.5. Cell phone.
6.6. Handheld aircraft radio transceiver.
6.7. Flare gun, 12 gauge if possible. These flares go 250 feet and produce 15,000 candle power.
6.8. Marine flare, SOLAS grade. These flares go up a 1000 feet and produce 30,000 candle power.
6.9. Whistle.
6.10. Satellite phone (I do not carry one due to cost)
7. Walk out equipment
7.1. Boots.
7.2. Snow shoes.*
7.3. Small back pack.* (Holds 2 long coats under back seat.)
7.4. Compass
7.5. GPS*, I load a topographical map into my Garmin 295.
8. Misc. and comfort
8.1. Survival book
8.2. Camping silverware
8.3. Needle with very heavy thread.
8.4. Toilet paper, camping soap, insect spray.
8.5. Tools: Sockets, crescent, screw drivers, pliers.
8.6. Patch for float.
8.7. Hats with mosquito nets.
8.8. Hand shovel.
8.9. 2 flashlights with extra batteries. I standardized all battery devices to AA size. Do not use NiCads because over time the batteries will die, even without use.
8.10. Multi blade Swiss knife or multi tool.
8.11. Duct tape
8.12. 1 quart pot.
8.13. 10 ft copper wire.
8.14. On floats besides tie down ropes we carry 100 feet of _ inch line with two sail boat blocks that give a 4 to 1 reduction. Last summer this allowed us to get the plane back over an underwater log that we had coasted up on during beaching and became stuck behind the step.* (Stored in floats)
All of the items above except for the asterisked items are packed in a large flight bag weighting 39 pounds. To organize the packing the tarp goes in first followed by 3 bags. These are 10 x 6 x 4 inches and have lots of pockets to hold small items. A good source for this type of bag is Recreation Equipment Inc or their website at rei.com. Look for products by outdoor research. One is for medical, food and first aid. Each is marked with a label so if you are looking for something it is simplified. On top of the 3 bags go two plastic rain coats. In Seattle we use these for non survival reasons. The side and end pockets hold everything else. These bags along with the life raft are stored behind the back seats. Under the seats are a small pack with coats on one side and a heavy blanket on the other side. If the two of us are going on a trip we remove the back seats to increase the space for camping and luggage. The shot gun is only carried in remote parts of Canada and Alaska. The life raft in not taken when we go to the other lower 48 states.
It is not the purpose of this article to be a survival guide. The assumption is that if you go down with a good survival book and the equipment that you need you will figure out how to survive. Reading the book first helps. Reviewing some of great survival stories with good or bad outcomes you can draw some conclusions. The survivors all had a combination of the following.
1. Good leadership and motivation to survive.
2. Good decision making.
3. The right equipment.
4. Stayed with the plane unless a walk out plan was certain.
5. The most successful survivals are the ones that barely make the news. These usually involve someone on a flight plan who as they go down or after the crash have the ability to communicate by radio or cell phone. These people are picked up within a few hours. Average time of rescue on IFR or flight following is 10 hours, VFR flight plan 35 hours, and no flight plan 60 hours.
6. The ones that have the highest failure rate are those without a flight plan who go down in a remote area with no way to communicate and no way to keep warm.
Regulations and Information sources:
1. FAA Flight Supplement for Alaska. Under general notices list equipment required in Alaska.
2. How to Survive on Land and Sea. By Frank and John Graighead.
I was thinking of a spot somewhere that we could assemble the info and links, for our well being in the backcountry.
Prepared Pilot
http://www.preparedpilot.com/Survival-Kits/Contents.htm
MPI Outdoor Products
http://www.mpioutdoors.com/main.htm
Like this post by Jr.CubBuilder,
This was written by another fellow, so I'm pasting it in here with his permission. The format won't carry over to this
By Thomas M. Bass
Survival Equipment
Get Serious or Die.
I carry a great deal of survival equipment. Living in Seattle we often take day trips over the Cascade Mountains or 50 miles across open ocean to Vancouver Island. In the summer we have gone to Alaska and the Yukon on floats. We camp out on deserted lakes and are often hundreds of miles from any population center. There are usually two of us in a 1976 Cessna 180. In the summer we are on floats and in the winter we switch to wheels. With the Kenmore STC for weight increase we have a useful load of 1375 on wheels and 1075 on floats. We are never close to full weight on wheels but on floats with full fuel we have 250lbs left for baggage, camping and survival equipment. Because of the remote areas and extreme weather we look at the problem a little differently than most pilots.
Those of us in the lower 48 cross the mountain chains in the left 1/3 of the country. Many of these areas have the same extreme weather and inaccessibility that you find in Alaska. It has astonished me to see fellow aviators who have no survival equipment or the sixty-nine dollar kit from the local aviation store. There is nothing wrong with the sixty nine dollar kit. It is a great starting point. If you fly in any area that is remote you should think about upgrading your survival kit. Remote is defined as anything you can not safely walk out of. If you have broken bones in legs or feet, remote can be less than _ mile from the interstate.
In flying the order of priority is aviate, navigate, and then communicate. In survival it is assess situation, critical first aid, signaling or communication, heat preservation, water procurement, shelter, food procurement and then travel. Unlike the aviation priority the survival order can change based on the situation or the assignment of tasks to other individuals. When you think about survival it becomes simpler if you divide the problem into the reasons people die in accidents. This assumes you are more or less in one piece after you hit the ground. Quantity and the brand of items have been omitted in most cases. This is because the number of people on board, the remoteness of the area and the environment you are flying over causes great variety in the equipment required. Use the check list as a guide, I have everything on the list except for three items eliminated due to cost.
1. Lack of air.
1.1. Time before death, 2 minutes.
1.2. Main cause is drowning.
1.3. Ways to offset.
1.3.1. Life Raft* We carry a four man raft with canopy. Would give you a tent in one minute that could be auto inflated even if you were wounded.
1.3.2. Life Jackets* (Stored in seat pockets)
2. Lack of body temperature.
2.1. Time before death, 30 minutes and up.
2.2. Main cause is exposure to cold water or air without proper clothes or heat.
2.3. Ways to Offset.
2.3.1. Wind proof matches in water proof container.
2.3.2. Starter fuel. Fire paste.
2.3.3. Liquid fuel 22 oz, with camp stove.
2.3.4. Sleeping bags, in waterproof bag.*
2.3.5. Fold up rain coats.
2.3.6. Space blankets. These are about 4 oz of thin aluminum plastic coated material not to be confused with heavy duty thermal blankets.
2.3.7. Candles
2.3.8. Ax, wire saw, fold up saw.
2.3.9. Thermal Blanket 5 x 7 ft or larger with grommets in corners, bright red or orange. 50’ of 1/8 inch nylon line
2.3.10. Heavy blanket.* Stored under right back seat.
2.3.11. Wool socks and gloves
2.3.12. 2 Coats* Stored in small pack under left back seat.
3. Lack of water.
3.1. Time before death, 2 to 14 days, depending on temperature and work load.
3.2. Ways to offset:
3.2.1. On board water.*
3.2.2. Water purification pills
3.2.3. Fold up water container. (2 Gal)
3.2.4. Water purification pump.
3.2.5. Salt water to water hand pump, cost around $600. (Do not carry due to cost)
4. Lack of food.
4.1. Time before death, around 60 days but become very weak after 10 days.
4.2. Ways to offset.
4.2.1. Fishing equipment.
4.2.1.1. Fold up rod, lures, bait, reel and line.
4.2.2. Gun, 12 gauge shotgun with shot and slugs.*
4.2.3. 30 high calorie snacks.
4.2.4. High density rations.
4.2.5. Freeze dried meals.
5. Medical.
5.1. Wound management kit. Includes different cleaning agents for wounds.
5.2. Sutures to close wounds. Read first aid book before cleaning or closing wounds.
5.3. 3 by 3 inch or larger absorbent pads, gauze compress, triangular bandage, wire splint, sterile gel soaked burn dressing and safety pins.
5.4. Neosporin, Benadryl anti inch spray, Ibuprofen, anti constipation pills, Aspirin, Iodine, Chap Stick, Dramamine, Contact, Imodium, sunscreen, ammonia inhalants and other pills that an individual in your crew might require. I buy over the counter drugs that are packaged on cards and throw out the boxes. Paste the directions on back of the card.
5.5. From your doctor get prescription for pain killer, epi-pen (for allergic reaction to bee sting) and antibiotic.
5.6. Tweezers, medical scissors, thermometer, rubber gloves, and flashlight.
5.7. Poison extractor kit, for snake bites. The desert is full of rattle snakes.
6. Signal equipment.
6.1. Signal mirror.
6.2. Strobe light
6.3. Marine handheld radio. I use the Garmin 720 for 4 reasons. It is small, water proof, and uses alkaline batteries that are interchangeable with my flash lights and Garmin 295.
6.4. Handheld GPS. Being able to communicate your exact location is critical.
6.5. Cell phone.
6.6. Handheld aircraft radio transceiver.
6.7. Flare gun, 12 gauge if possible. These flares go 250 feet and produce 15,000 candle power.
6.8. Marine flare, SOLAS grade. These flares go up a 1000 feet and produce 30,000 candle power.
6.9. Whistle.
6.10. Satellite phone (I do not carry one due to cost)
7. Walk out equipment
7.1. Boots.
7.2. Snow shoes.*
7.3. Small back pack.* (Holds 2 long coats under back seat.)
7.4. Compass
7.5. GPS*, I load a topographical map into my Garmin 295.
8. Misc. and comfort
8.1. Survival book
8.2. Camping silverware
8.3. Needle with very heavy thread.
8.4. Toilet paper, camping soap, insect spray.
8.5. Tools: Sockets, crescent, screw drivers, pliers.
8.6. Patch for float.
8.7. Hats with mosquito nets.
8.8. Hand shovel.
8.9. 2 flashlights with extra batteries. I standardized all battery devices to AA size. Do not use NiCads because over time the batteries will die, even without use.
8.10. Multi blade Swiss knife or multi tool.
8.11. Duct tape
8.12. 1 quart pot.
8.13. 10 ft copper wire.
8.14. On floats besides tie down ropes we carry 100 feet of _ inch line with two sail boat blocks that give a 4 to 1 reduction. Last summer this allowed us to get the plane back over an underwater log that we had coasted up on during beaching and became stuck behind the step.* (Stored in floats)
All of the items above except for the asterisked items are packed in a large flight bag weighting 39 pounds. To organize the packing the tarp goes in first followed by 3 bags. These are 10 x 6 x 4 inches and have lots of pockets to hold small items. A good source for this type of bag is Recreation Equipment Inc or their website at rei.com. Look for products by outdoor research. One is for medical, food and first aid. Each is marked with a label so if you are looking for something it is simplified. On top of the 3 bags go two plastic rain coats. In Seattle we use these for non survival reasons. The side and end pockets hold everything else. These bags along with the life raft are stored behind the back seats. Under the seats are a small pack with coats on one side and a heavy blanket on the other side. If the two of us are going on a trip we remove the back seats to increase the space for camping and luggage. The shot gun is only carried in remote parts of Canada and Alaska. The life raft in not taken when we go to the other lower 48 states.
It is not the purpose of this article to be a survival guide. The assumption is that if you go down with a good survival book and the equipment that you need you will figure out how to survive. Reading the book first helps. Reviewing some of great survival stories with good or bad outcomes you can draw some conclusions. The survivors all had a combination of the following.
1. Good leadership and motivation to survive.
2. Good decision making.
3. The right equipment.
4. Stayed with the plane unless a walk out plan was certain.
5. The most successful survivals are the ones that barely make the news. These usually involve someone on a flight plan who as they go down or after the crash have the ability to communicate by radio or cell phone. These people are picked up within a few hours. Average time of rescue on IFR or flight following is 10 hours, VFR flight plan 35 hours, and no flight plan 60 hours.
6. The ones that have the highest failure rate are those without a flight plan who go down in a remote area with no way to communicate and no way to keep warm.
Regulations and Information sources:
1. FAA Flight Supplement for Alaska. Under general notices list equipment required in Alaska.
2. How to Survive on Land and Sea. By Frank and John Graighead.
While the optimist, the pessimist and the realist were arguing about the glass of water… the opportunist drank it.
Never assume malice for what can be explained by stupidity!
Never assume malice for what can be explained by stupidity!
Sat Feb 03, 2007 2:59 pm
suggestion
I would sort of like to see more on maintenence, I like to work on old airplanes and enjoy learning from others. Seems there is always something new to try to figure out.
Shane
Shane
Sun Feb 04, 2007 10:51 am
I didn't have to "come back" to BCP, I never left. I did bail out of the 170 Assn site discussions. Plenty of discussion with lotsa good people and good (and BS!) info there (just like here), I just didn't care for the way the moderator ran that discussion site. I'm trying to be diplomatic here, nuff said I guess. 
Eric
Eric
Cessna Skywagon -- accept no substitute!
Sun Feb 04, 2007 12:11 pm
I hear ya Eric. It makes me want to create...
My own 170 community site. I wonder how many people would participate in light of the fact that TIC170A is so established?
My own 170 community site. I wonder how many people would participate in light of the fact that TIC170A is so established?
- Zzz offline
- Posts: 2855
- Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2004 11:09 pm
- Location: northern
- Aircraft: Swiveling desk chair
Half a century spent proving “it is better to be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.”
Sun Feb 04, 2007 9:36 pm
I think what you created and nurtured here is great, Zane. (aw, gee,I'm getting that warm and fuzzy feeling.....) There's already the 170 Assn site, why reinvent the wheel?
I like this site cuz it's about the activity, as opposed to being aircraft type-specific stuff. I like the 170 site for 170-specific info, the supercub.org site for Cub and Piper-specific stuff, etc.
I don't know how much work is involved with running one of these websites, but I'd hate to see you get so many irons in the fire that this site suffered.
Eric
I like this site cuz it's about the activity, as opposed to being aircraft type-specific stuff. I like the 170 site for 170-specific info, the supercub.org site for Cub and Piper-specific stuff, etc.
I don't know how much work is involved with running one of these websites, but I'd hate to see you get so many irons in the fire that this site suffered.
Eric
Cessna Skywagon -- accept no substitute!
Mon Feb 05, 2007 5:41 am
I wonder how many people would participate in light of the fact that TIC170A is so established?
I think about 9% of the TIC170A membership, since 10% is on line. But I think you (Zane that is) are onto something bigger than TIC170A because this site is not aircraft specific. If a guy gets on this website with a V tail Bonanza, he'll get some web time.
I am a member over at TIC170A and the community has given me valuable information. I have gotten enough discounts on parts to more than recover the cost of my membership.
Backcountry.org is a place I can put my feet up, have a cold one and relax. Its about the flying, not the plane. I also learn about other airplanes here that I otherwise would not be exposed to.
What ever you do with this website it will be the right move, cuz yes you are a professional. I think that easy picture posting and viewing will bring more pilots here.
Maybe you should consider forming an exploratory committee on the possibility of forming a committee.
The world is moving way to fast for committees.
Bill
- Flat Country Pilot offline
- Posts: 191
- Joined: Tue Apr 25, 2006 4:40 am
- Location: North Dakota
Flat Country Pilot
Farm Field PVT
54 170B
Farm Field PVT
54 170B
Mon Feb 05, 2007 10:37 am
Heh heh. Bill...sshhhhhhhhh! These nice people on BCP don't need to know about the shit I've stirred up on other sites... 
You guys are right, I was just thinking out loud...about how it would be nice to have a site(totally separate from BCP) dedicated to 170's but with the atmosphere of this one. *snap* ok I'm awake now.
Well guys thanks for the comments. I'll get to work on a demo we can play with. I'll enlist a few of you to help me when the time comes.
Z
You guys are right, I was just thinking out loud...about how it would be nice to have a site(totally separate from BCP) dedicated to 170's but with the atmosphere of this one. *snap* ok I'm awake now.
Well guys thanks for the comments. I'll get to work on a demo we can play with. I'll enlist a few of you to help me when the time comes.
Z
- Zzz offline
- Posts: 2855
- Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2004 11:09 pm
- Location: northern
- Aircraft: Swiveling desk chair
Half a century spent proving “it is better to be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.”
Mon Feb 05, 2007 12:21 pm
One thing about being type-specific, on the brand x website you will not get that (hopefully valuable) imput from a brand y guy. I've seen enough of the pissing contest sorta thing between "type"-types at fly-ins and get-togethers. Not to mention any names, but a certain type club with a reputation for snootiness comes to mind....
Eric (don't ask me, I won't elaborate)
Eric (don't ask me, I won't elaborate)
Cessna Skywagon -- accept no substitute!
Mon Feb 05, 2007 1:34 pm
Just to clarify, BCP is not changing its focus. We are what we are, and what we are is a good thing. I was merely thinking out loud after having some frustration with the 170 Assoc site.
That V-tail Bonanza guy was a friend of SuperDave's. I can't remember his name. Their pics of them flying together always crack me up, kinda like the cat and dog who are best friends.
That V-tail Bonanza guy was a friend of SuperDave's. I can't remember his name. Their pics of them flying together always crack me up, kinda like the cat and dog who are best friends.
- Zzz offline
- Posts: 2855
- Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2004 11:09 pm
- Location: northern
- Aircraft: Swiveling desk chair
Half a century spent proving “it is better to be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.”
Mon Feb 05, 2007 10:18 pm
1986 MX-7-235
Tue Feb 06, 2007 5:45 pm
- mtbowhunter offline
- Posts: 77
- Joined: Fri May 12, 2006 9:51 pm
- Location: Great Falls, MT
Tue Feb 06, 2007 6:16 pm
just an idea, perhaps have a section dedicated to some in depth detail of different types of bush planes....its something I could help out with, sort of like a small airplane biography. just a thought, the website is great though!
- pittspilot28 offline
- Posts: 105
- Joined: Tue Apr 04, 2006 1:44 pm
- Location: Plymouth, MA
Tue Feb 06, 2007 8:34 pm
- OregonMaule offline
- Posts: 6977
- Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2006 9:44 pm
- Location: Orygun
Wed Feb 07, 2007 8:51 am
One thing to stay away from is control on listinging something that someone may need.. On that other site you have to be a paid member to give something away. I had some 170 parts a while back and saw on that site someone looking for it and needing it. I posted a reply saying I have one just pay shipping.The Piss headed Moderator pulled it and said I had to join to post an item. I said I just wanting to give it away to keep someone in the air.He said you can donate it to him. I told him I would trow it away first. I gave it to a local guy that I heard needed one. I thought that was foolish to not let a 170 guy get something he needs because I was not a member. Never went there again.
Zane you are doing a fine Job! Keep it simple and Fun. Thankyou.
Zane you are doing a fine Job! Keep it simple and Fun. Thankyou.
- squaretail offline
- Posts: 28
- Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2005 8:54 pm
- Location: NorthWest Montana
Wed Feb 07, 2007 11:35 am
Cessna Skywagon -- accept no substitute!
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