Backcountry Pilot • What helicopter should I buy?

What helicopter should I buy?

Technical and practical discussion about specific aircraft types such as Cessna 180, Maule M7, et al. Please read and search carefully before posting, as many popular topics have already been discussed.
30 postsPage 2 of 21, 2

Re: What helicopter should I buy?

8GCBC wrote:Pilot destroyed Enstrom here on Molokai. Pilot got caught in his own dust ball and lost it. Definitely pilot error. Sad use of a good helicopter. The pilot was a "know it all".

http://www.ntsb.gov/aviationquery/brief.aspx?ev_id=20001212X19036&key=1

Enstrom: 441 records meet your search criteria

http://www.ntsb.gov/aviationquery/index.aspx


Thanks, Just ran down the fatal ones and mostly fuel starvation, terrain and obstacles, Bad maint.
1 tail rotor blade problem, couple of bad repair jobs on the sprag clutch
M6RV6 offline
User avatar
Posts: 2313
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2008 5:52 pm
Location: Rice Wa. 82WN Magee Creek AERODROME
FindMeSpot URL: http://share.findmespot.com/shared/face ... sWKXuhKlg2
Have as much Fun as is Safe, and Keep SMILIN! GT,

Re: What helicopter should I buy?

Never heard anyone say a bad thing about Enstrom. Thank you for the guidance!
8GCBC offline
User avatar
Posts: 4623
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 2010 11:55 pm
Location: Honolulu
Aircraft: 2018 R44
CFII, MEI, CFISES, ATPME, IA/AP, RPPL, Ski&Amphib ops, RHC mechanic cert, RHC SC— 3000TT

Re: What helicopter should I buy?

Well, being a rotorwing pilot myself I just couldn't help but posting a reply... The only hiller I would ever get into would be an E model... I've heard the maintenance is horrendous and expensive but B's and C's can be had for around 60 grand.
R44's aren't bad helicopters if flown appropriately, but you're looking at 250K-400K for a decent one. Schweizer 300's are fantastic despite a low useful... You're probably not going camping with the wife and dog in a 300...
A Bell 47G3B1 is an excellent performer and lots of old timers would prefer flying a 3B1 in the mountains over even a jet ranger.
Jet Rangers can be one of the best bangs for the buck these days as in the commercial market everyone seems to want an A Star, so a decent jet ranger can be had for 250-300... Try and get a low serial number (a converted A model to BIII) and keep it as light as possible... under 1800LBS if possible..
If I was buying a helicopter to fly privately right now it would be the Aerospatiale Alouette II 313B. There's one for sale with mid times here in canada right around the 150K mark... 5 passenger, walk all over a jet ranger, and handle like a lama (arguably the best helicopter ever built, but I'm biased), and looks fantastic.
Can't speak to the Enstrom as I've never had the opportunity to fly one, nor do I know anyone that has one... All they seem to be used for up here is private flying.

Jeff
Parker77 offline
User avatar
Posts: 23
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2012 11:16 pm
Location: Revelstoke BC

Re: What helicopter should I buy?

Has anyone taken the Robinson Maintenance course in Torrance, "Kalifornification"?

http://robinsonheli.com/rhc_maintenance_course.html#
8GCBC offline
User avatar
Posts: 4623
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 2010 11:55 pm
Location: Honolulu
Aircraft: 2018 R44
CFII, MEI, CFISES, ATPME, IA/AP, RPPL, Ski&Amphib ops, RHC mechanic cert, RHC SC— 3000TT

Re: What helicopter should I buy?

So why is fuel starvation so often fatal in an enstrom if they auto so good?
River rat offline
Supporter
User avatar
Posts: 750
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2007 10:32 pm
Location: Saskatchewan Can.
tricycles are for little girls

Re: What helicopter should I buy?

Jeff, you bring up some good points. I just sold my Astar 3B to a Lama operator. He didn't want the Astar, but the customers wanted a newer helicopter (helicopters are classed by oil and geotech companies by ten year blocks and they pay less). The Lama is what I would want if I could rationalize the fuel and maintenance costs. It is the 185 of light helicopters and flies nicely. The Jetrangers have so many options, high hot engine, big transmission, heavy mast, high skids and so on. If flown ones with more engine than transmission and ones the opposite. I almost got a Jetranger 1 for $80K, but it had too many calendar items due. The best deal I ever found was a Bell 47 in Uganda, two spare engines new in the can, three sets of blades and a roomful of spares, $5,000. One problem, license built by Westland, no import to the US, bummer. Bell protects its certificate tighter than any other manufacturer, with specific serial number blocks or even specific serial numbers ineligible for certification on the TC.

One shadow on 47's in general is a group of weasels back in the 80's bought a bunch of Bell maintenance trainers from the Army as scrap. These where complete 47's, but never intended to fly, so no testing or standards where applied to their manufacture. So the weasel group proceeded to find nearly destroyed 47's and build helicopters from the data plate with these trainers and the basis. Lots of sketchy birds out there, there was an AD about it and lots of FAA guys prodding 47's all over. It should hopefully have been weeded out by now but I hear about one now and again.

You are looking at maintaing the Hiller or late model 47's with a Lycoming H model engine. Not too bad if operated correctly. Seems to be very popular with loggers (moving pendants, not logs), fish spotters and spray operators. A bud of mine has an STC to convert the OH58 Kiowa to Restricted Category. Kind of kick ass Jetranger, longer boom, more pedal, bigger blades and the big engine with cool cable cutters, not too terribly expensive.

Still the equation is budget+mission+operating costs/ego. I actually sold an EC145 to a customer, who's only criteria was: could it land on his boat and would his mountain bikes fit in through the clamshell doors. So many issues when your that rich, oh, and we had to change the interior so his kids could sit on the seats wet.
dogpilot offline
Took ball and went home
Posts: 902
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:20 pm
Aircraft: Cessna 206H Amphib, Caravan 675 Amphib

Re: What helicopter should I buy?

ccurrie wrote:So why is fuel starvation so often fatal in an enstrom if they auto so good?


Flying without fuel is really dangerous. Not recommend for safe ops.
8GCBC offline
User avatar
Posts: 4623
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 2010 11:55 pm
Location: Honolulu
Aircraft: 2018 R44
CFII, MEI, CFISES, ATPME, IA/AP, RPPL, Ski&Amphib ops, RHC mechanic cert, RHC SC— 3000TT

Re: What helicopter should I buy?

ccurrie wrote:So why is fuel starvation so often fatal in an enstrom if they auto so good?

Mountains, oceans!! You still need a place to put one!
M6RV6 offline
User avatar
Posts: 2313
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2008 5:52 pm
Location: Rice Wa. 82WN Magee Creek AERODROME
FindMeSpot URL: http://share.findmespot.com/shared/face ... sWKXuhKlg2
Have as much Fun as is Safe, and Keep SMILIN! GT,

Re: What helicopter should I buy?

dogpilot, it's funny you mention the restricted category Kiowa. We just bought an AS350 from a company that has a few set up for spraying and apparently they are great. Im lucky I get to fly a Lama full time... ours is the last doing any general charter work left in canada... Sad to see them phased out. Sounds like you sell some iron, you should PM me your info.

Jeff
Parker77 offline
User avatar
Posts: 23
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2012 11:16 pm
Location: Revelstoke BC

Re: What helicopter should I buy?

Enstrom has a "direct operating cost" chart on there website it seems quite detailed and comes up with a total of just under 200 bucks an hour including fuel, is this realistic? It seems optimistic to me.

I guess they are assuming you put enough hours on to not calendar out fairly new parts?
River rat offline
Supporter
User avatar
Posts: 750
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2007 10:32 pm
Location: Saskatchewan Can.
tricycles are for little girls

DISPLAY OPTIONS

Previous
30 postsPage 2 of 21, 2

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

Latest Features

Latest Knowledge Base