This is what I am forced to think to myself about half of the time I talk with non -aviators about flying or airplane ownership once they know you fly or own a plane.

How many times has someone nagged you for stupid tidbit of information about flying in a GA plane in hopes that it will warrant their fear or distrust of propeller driven arplanes? The dumbest question is usually a generic "isn't that dangerous" followed by a series of other stupid non-factual statistics about how often planes plummit from the sky. It's always followed by " Well don't ask me to join you up there because I'm not geting in one of those "puddle jumpers" or some other dumb demeaning insult to a GA plane that makes me think "What makes you think I would ever invite you into my airplane?".

Usually I just smile and quietly curse the bastard under my breath, but today, I couldn't resist informing the schmuck of an actual fact. I started off by explainng to him that statistically there was no possible way that he could ever die or be harmed at all by flying with me due to my strict rule of never allowing an a$$hole in the plane with me.

Sorry about the rant, but I ran into some idiot at lunch that figured out the hard way that he has nothing to fear or risk from flying with me.

Had that exact conversation once. Just once. So far.

My sentiments exactly! I do like the honest ones that just say they are afraid of flying period. I am very choosy who I allow to fly with me. Quite frankly I like the alone time. Although it reminds me of my paratrooper days when I would be asked; 'Why do you jump out of a perfectly good airplane? This always comes from pilots as a wise crack. My response is that it is a way of getting behind enemy lines in order to attack with an element of surprise and beats walking.

When people ask me if flying little airplanes is dangerous, I just say ... Yes.

I never take it personal. It is just the way many people are when a conversation doesn't revolve around them. I do have to admit though that I do get my jollies asking those type of people how long it takes the Earth to go once around the Sun? There's your sign!

Green Hornet wrote: Although it reminds me of my paratrooper days when I would be asked; 'Why do you jump out of a perfectly good airplane? This always comes from pilots as a wise crack. My response is that it is a way of getting behind enemy lines in order to attack with an element of surprise and beats walking.

I've heard that a few times over the years. I usually just asked the questoner just how many perfectly good military aircraft they had spent time in? After crashing in three military helicoptors, i'll be happy to have my chute on thank you very much

Chris

A friend used to call me every single time she heard of an aviation accident, worried it was me (even if it was a couple hundred miles away, despite the fact I'm doing more building than flying.)

One day, I called her, all worried and sounding exactly as panicked. "J---, I heard on the radio there was a car accident, and I know you drive! Are you all right? What happened? It wasn't you? Oh, thank goodness - I keep hearing reports every single day of car wrecks, and you know how nervous that makes me about you being on the road!"

She stopped after that.

When I rode motorcycles, everyone I talked to knew someone who had a friend who had a cousin who knew someone who had been hurt in a bike accident. They always asked me if I knew that person, but they didn't even know their name. They'd go on and on about how dangerous bikes are, and they shouldn't be allowed on the roads, and you had to have a death wish to ride one. It really got tiring and irritating, so I'd leave the conversation and go somewhere else.

For some odd reason, I don't get that nearly as much with little airplanes. A lot of people ask what it takes to get a pilot's license, how much an airplane costs (same as a new luxury car), how far I can go, how much fuel costs, etc. I much prefer this conversation to the former.

ASW.

It seems to me that rather than viewing such questions and comments as a reason to go off on a rant, it is better to use it as another opportunity to represent to others what makes flying so special. Dumping on people for their ignorance is surely not the way to "win friends and influence people."

Whenever I encounter ignorance and skepticism about flying in GA aircraft, I try to lift a little of the fog that everybody who isn't a pilot is likely to have clouding their perceptions of what I do for fun and for serious transportation (I commute cross-country to my job by airplane). Unless someone is truly belligerent or deliberately obnoxious, there's no reason to be nasty.

I love to fly, but GA flying is an inarguably risky venture, compared to most every other form of transportation, and we cannot deny the unfortunate stats that say so. Way too many GA pilots make bad decisions and/or lack the skills to stay out of trouble, and as a consequence they get into trouble, the results of which the media are more than too happy to play up. And that colors the perceptions of most people. These are undeniable facts of life.

So we don't need to compound the negative impressions by spouting off to people who truly don't know better, through no fault of their own.

Yes I agree.
We should be ambassadors and educators. Not everyone knows how the Amazing Flying Machine works far less what is going to offend somebody that may have had to little coffee in the morning.
I treat everyone that comes around my plane that asks questions like this like a child. Because of their lack of education about aviation they might as well be a young kid.
Patience and understanding. It will help more people understand something as foreign to most people as flying.
GJ

nmflyguy wrote:It seems to me that rather than viewing such questions and comments as a reason to go off on a rant, it is better to use it as another opportunity to represent to others what makes flying so special. Dumping on people for their ignorance is surely not the way to "win friends and influence people."

Whenever I encounter ignorance and skepticism about flying in GA aircraft, I try to lift a little of the fog that everybody who isn't a pilot is likely to have clouding their perceptions of what I do for fun and for serious transportation (I commute cross-country to my job by airplane). Unless someone is truly belligerent or deliberately obnoxious, there's no reason to be nasty.

I love to fly, but GA flying is an inarguably risky venture, compared to most every other form of transportation, and we cannot deny the unfortunate stats that say so. Way too many GA pilots make bad decisions and/or lack the skills to stay out of trouble, and as a consequence they get into trouble, the results of which the media are more than too happy to play up. And that colors the perceptions of most people. These are undeniable facts of life.

So we don't need to compound the negative impressions by spouting off to people who truly don't know better, through no fault of their own.

I vehemently disagree with every thing you said! In fact the older I get the more I know that the reason we live in a society that has no manners or class is because of some misguided theme that people are capable of a learning moment. The topic person described was being deliberately obnoxious and entitled to say whatever came out of their pinhead! I am of the opinion that people need to have their entitled mindset shook to their very core in order to teach them " the facts of life"!

Flying is a lot less risky then driving as was so aptly pointed out so there is an argument to the contrary! In fact the " stats are not as unfortunate" as you depict! The total number of U.S. civil aviation accidents nationally decreased from 1,658 in 2008 to 1,551 in 2009, according to NTSB statistics.

If the media put every fatal car accident on the flat screen every time one occurs that would cover the cable news 24/7. The reason for the " negative impression" is the media coverage of every GA accident all 1551!

With the addition of technology support the FAA, AOPA and CFI schools have the best training that has ever existed. I meet a lot of pilots and 99.5% are very,very, well trained and safety conscious. I think some people just panic and forget their training and some are just arrogant members of the Darwin club!

As far as the carrying the banner for GA to the non flying public. I for one hardly ever meet these people on the airfield! If someone shows an honest interest in flying off field then by all means share your enthusiasm but if they are wise ass's then "calls em a you sees em!" Just maybe you can get them to grow out of their jealous high school mentality!!!! Imagine how much he/she could have learned from a guy like obxbushpilot if he/she weren't so self absorbed! The first step toward learning is humility and that failing is a " Fault of their Own!! "

Flying is a lot less risky then driving as was so aptly pointed out so there is an argument to the contrary! In fact the " stats are not as unfortunate" as you depict! The total number of U.S. civil aviation accidents nationally decreased from 1,658 in 2008 to 1,551 in 2009, according to NTSB statistics.

And the GA accident rate per 100,000 hours flown (both "all", and "fatal") went up in 2009 from 2008.

If you want to make an argument about GA safety, I can't help but think one should stay 1,000,000 miles away from statistics while making it

Green Hornet wrote:Imagine how much he/she could have learned from a guy like obxbushpilot if he/she weren't so self absorbed!

Imagine how awesome you could realize I am if you weren't so proud of yourself.

I think we all can benefit from the high road. It sure feels good to stuff someone into their place, but it rarely does much good in the grand scheme of things.

once&futr_alaskaflyer wrote:

Flying is a lot less risky then driving as was so aptly pointed out so there is an argument to the contrary! In fact the " stats are not as unfortunate" as you depict! The total number of U.S. civil aviation accidents nationally decreased from 1,658 in 2008 to 1,551 in 2009, according to NTSB statistics.

And the GA accident rate per 100,000 hours flown (both "all", and "fatal") went up in 2009 from 2008.

If you want to make an argument about GA safety, I can't help but think one should stay 1,000,000 miles away from statistics while making it

OK point taken lies, dam lies, and stats manipulated!
Tell that to insurance companies who care more about tail wheel hours flown rather than landings! Point hours don't mean a thing because as you know most accidents take place on take off and landing!
Zane you take the high road and I'll take the low road but I'll be satisfied before ye!

Z,
Pray tell what is the grand scheme of things

Green Hornet wrote:Z,
Pre tell what is the grand scheme of things

The grand scheme is to boost the public's image of general aviation until it exceeds the starry-eyed excitement and admiration that it once enjoyed post WW2. I'm pretty sure pilots still crashed into houses and died on a regular basis back then, but from what I have read, people shook it off because aviation was awesome! That's the spirit that beat the Japanese!

We as pilots are the only ones who view the waning acceptance of aviation as a negative. There is no other user group or interest group who even comes close to stumbling upon the notion that general aviation suffers an image problem, save us. Of course we know it's great, we love it and do it as much as possible. Some lonely guy in his basement raising model schooners in a glass jar probably ponders a similar issue. But as an optimist, I must side with nmflyguy on this one. When faced with an individual who feels overly compelled to share their negative opinions of our dangerous little death pods, what is the outcome that you want? To widen the rift? To strengthen the perception that pilots are grumpy and neurotic old men polishing their planes until the inevitable and fateful day when they crash it?

I got into it once with a Truckee resident who hated the airport and had only poor things to say about planes. He hated the noise mostly. We battled vociferously. How do you convince someone who previously was completely ignorant about the existence of airplanes for normal people, and wasn't perceptive enough to avoid buying a home under the flight path of an airport frequently by Lear 45's... that aviation is a positive thing? Tough nut to crack. It felt good to convince him how stupid he was, but in the end the joke is on me (us.) That guy is now positive that ALL pilots are dicks!

Statistics mean little to a person who has witnessed an air crash. I really like Dot_AK's story about calling her friend to report the car crash in the paper...I chuckled. But yada yada yada... we stand little chance of retaining what acceptance we do have if we chew people up for volunteering their negative opinions about aviation. I know you are enthusiastic about flying, and you'd likely eagerly share that with a wide-eyed young person. Maybe it works on the grisled and jaded grumps too.

1SeventyZ wrote:

Green Hornet wrote:Z,
Pray tell what is the grand scheme of things

The grand scheme is to boost the public's image of general aviation until it exceeds the starry-eyed excitement and admiration that it once enjoyed post WW2. I'm pretty sure pilots still crashed into houses and died on a regular basis back then, but from what I have read, people shook it off because aviation was awesome! That's the spirit that beat the Japanese!

We as pilots are the only ones who view the waning acceptance of aviation as a negative. There is no other user group or interest group who even comes close to stumbling upon the notion that general aviation suffers an image problem, save us. Of course we know it's great, we love it and do it as much as possible. Some lonely guy in his basement raising model schooners in a glass jar probably ponders a similar issue. But as an optimist, I must side with nmflyguy on this one. When faced with an individual who feels overly compelled to share their negative opinions of our dangerous little death pods, what is the outcome that you want? To widen the rift? To strengthen the perception that pilots are grumpy and neurotic old men polishing their planes until the inevitable and fateful day when they crash it?

I got into it once with a Truckee resident who hated the airport and had only poor things to say about planes. He hated the noise mostly. We battled vociferously. How do you convince someone who previously was completely ignorant about the existence of airplanes for normal people, and wasn't perceptive enough to avoid buying a home under the flight path of an airport frequently by Lear 45's... that aviation is a positive thing? Tough nut to crack. It felt good to convince him how stupid he was, but in the end the joke is on me (us.) That guy is now positive that ALL pilots are dicks!

Statistics mean little to a person who has witnessed an air crash. I really like Dot_AK's story about calling her friend to report the car crash in the paper...I chuckled. But yada yada yada... we stand little chance of retaining what acceptance we do have if we chew people up for volunteering their negative opinions about aviation. I know you are enthusiastic about flying, and you'd likely eagerly share that with a wide-eyed young person. Maybe it works on the grisled and jaded grumps too.

I guess I'm just one of the lucky grisly, jaded old grumps because I haven't seen this great divide rift. We are not talking professional politics. The topic began with an anecdotal story of a wise a$$ who got put in his place! Bravo obxbushpilot Encore on the next A$$wipe! Just because you couldn't convince a noise abatement short sighted airplane hater is like me trying to convince some people that Marxism is bad! Exercise in futility! You can't seriously believe that if you placated Mr. Noise Abatement he would think you are the only non- dick pilot? or that we are all cool people but misguided? You should have bought him a set of ENC Boise headsets for his TV and stereo if you really wanted to win him over. Although he would probably hate them just because he likes to be pissed off at something all the time!

I know what I am about to say will shock some but it appears to me that this whole Ambassador good will thing is a marketing ploy of the GA business lobby. I have to have insurance, I have to have a lawyer on retainer, I have to pay more for fuel and higher taxes. I have pay property tax, sales tax, tie down fees, Annuals, re-register my airplane, get a new Xponder, prepare for ADS-B, get a medical every 2 years, BFR and you think I shouldn't be a cranky, old grisly, jaded grump, when some A$$wipe tells me he would never ride in a GA airplane? Like the man said "What makes him think I'd allow him in my airplane to barf all over the cabin ?" If you really want to be an ambassador do the angel flights, or the dog transportation. These are the people who are spreading the good will!

In the last twelve months I have worked four plane accidents, three of which were fatals with eight victims (presumed) and I still have a positive outlook on safety. The same two or three things are killing folks. Don't do those things. Done.

Zane is right in that we are the best ambassadors of our passion, and it is up to us to enlighten the ignorant about the benefits and wonders of aviation. (Certainly the 6 o'clock news isn't going to.)

In the case of my friend, no amount of comforting anecdotes, positive statistics, logic, or reality would penetrate until she found herself hit with a taste of her own medicine. Now, as I'm no hurry to lose a friend, I followed up with gentle humor and a reassurance that I appreciate her concern for my well being. She got over it. She's still no great fan of aviation, but she's no longer convinced that every plane is just waiting to fall out of the sky. She did pester me often with "why did it wreck?" afterward, and I consider that a taste of my own medicine - people are naturally curious, and since I shocked her out of unthinking assumptions, it was my duty to educate her.

On the other hand, in the case of a blowhard who is actively proud of their ignorance and fear, there's just no teaching them as don't want to learn. Trying to change their minds is futile, and arguing with idiots is pointless - they drag you down to their level, and then beat you with experience. The best thing to do there is disengage politely, and walk away before your day is ruined.

We all have our own style of dealing with non pilots and there impression of planes and flying. I have used both methods. It all depends on my mood. Some times I am nice. Other times I'll tear their head off and take a S ^ & % down the hole.

Good day