Backcountry Pilot • What's so great about a Cessna 180?

What's so great about a Cessna 180?

Technical and practical discussion about specific aircraft types such as Cessna 180, Maule M7, et al. Please read and search carefully before posting, as many popular topics have already been discussed.
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Re: What's so great about a Cessna 180?

aktahoe1 wrote:This has been a great thread for encouragment on my new purchase.

I have officially purchased a 53 180 today!!! Pretty fired up to say the least. Got a good price on Joe Stancils down in Placerville. It does seem heavy however for a 53, (1700) but I think I can dump weight, maybe. Anyhow, will be selling my beautiful 182 soon.

I am officially draggin my tail now!


Congratulations. I'm not a subscriber to the supremecy theory of the 180 over other airframes (mainly because my 180 is the only fixed wing airplane I've flown or owned), but I enjoy the challenges that my 180 brings me and I'm proud of the unique classic airplane ownership experience. I hope you and your Skywagon enjoy many years together.

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Re: What's so great about a Cessna 180?

aktahoe1 wrote:This has been a great thread for encouragment on my new purchase.

I have officially purchased a 53 180 today!!! Pretty fired up to say the least. Got a good price on Joe Stancils down in Placerville. It does seem heavy however for a 53, (1700) but I think I can dump weight, maybe. Anyhow
........................Bout time sissy boy!!!No more Land O Matic for you .Now you are going to have to focus grasshopper, and become one with the machine or become one with the bushes on the side of the runway! Hell yea! Im stoked for you! When are we going to pick it up? :o
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Re: What's so great about a Cessna 180?

low rider wrote:Bout time sissy boy!!!No more Land O Matic for you .Now you are going to have to focus grasshopper, and become one with the machine or become one with the bushes on the side of the runway! Hell yea! Im stoked for you! When are we going to pick it up? :o


Seconded. Your flying/landing experience just became a whole lot more exciting and/or terrifying. Yee haww!!!!
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Re: What's so great about a Cessna 180?

Cool old thread. I wonder after reading thru the whole thing..where did all these folks go?

aktaho, nice purchase. Now lets talk about that surplus 182 for sale...... :idea: :idea: :idea: :idea:

Oh crap here comes the boss! "I cannot buy another plane, I cannot buy another plane, I cannot buy.."
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Re: What's so great about a Cessna 180?

We are getting her Wed/Thur lowdogger! Hell I need someone that can sort of fly it! Would be just my luck to go out and try and come crying back to the land o matic...:)

Damn my 182 is a great plane. As you have witnessed Vail...some here will call BS I am certain, but it gets off the ground in 400 ft no wind light fuel and me. I have loved that plane!

OK so now I need to start a new thread or Zane will kill this one if I dont use the correct verbiage. FS 182 with every mod you can think of. Looks like a Katmai without the Peterson conversion. As said, will start a new thread once the wife makes me put a sign on her but thinking I can get around 70-80K for her. Heck the 430w alone is worth a few peanuts...

I am pretty much beside myself now. Cant wait to be terrified of the crosswind. Damn what was I thinking #-o :lol:
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Re: What's so great about a Cessna 180?

Please post a picture of your wife with a sign on her so we can see what is on the block.............
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Re: What's so great about a Cessna 180?

i agree aktahoe...the venerable 182 is a damn good one for sure...i've stuffed mine in and out of places where the little tail-dragger guys sometimes don't go...nice to fill it with stuff and fly almost any mission. have been in a couple of 207's, and gump is right, damn good hauler and friendly to fly...
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Re: What's so great about a Cessna 180?

Skystrider wrote:Congratulations! Just remember, real taildragger pilots learn to land tail first! :lol:


Is this a ground loop joke? ;)
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Re: What's so great about a Cessna 180?

aktahoe1 wrote: FS 182 with every mod you can think of.


With or without the HD nose gear supports (rope) :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
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Re: What's so great about a Cessna 180?

I am seriously laughing pretty hard here..

Baron- I told my wife we need to put a sign on her and get a photo today...

Q- The ropes and come a long I will throw into the deal as there is to much history with them to not go with the plane. They go everywhere the plane goes..you just never know as to when you may need them. Still looking for the STC to use them....:)

Need to start a thread on good landing techniques for the tail wheel...
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Re: What's so great about a Cessna 180?

Look what I found in the gallery today...

Image

Already got the akheliski.com sticker on it...haha. Is that lowrider?
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Re: What's so great about a Cessna 180?

That it is... Looks like the boys are having fun out in Sierra Valley.

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Re: What's so great about a Cessna 180?

Yeah Zane! You found us!

Leaving the pavement behind once again....

We have some really cool spots around here we call our "Golf Course" Maybe close to 30 some spots now all varying in length and difficulty. Have I said how much I love my plane yet???

Like the thread says..."whats so great about a 180?" Well, I can say the wheel is now in the correct spot and its not my 182. No offense to the 182 drivers (because I still love mine as well), but now, knowing what I know, there is just no comparison. Not to mention the thought that has always been in the back of my mind in the 182....FIREWALL

Put a bunch of pics in the gallery from todays mission.

We really need to have a fly-in down here!

Gump, you would be amazed how many spots we have now!!! When are we coming to pick you up???
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Re: What's so great about a Cessna 180?

Nice friendly read. Wish I had time and a place to get off floats and get back to wheels for some fun. Not much "offstrip" opportunities around my parts. Sure miss western Canada, the NWT & Yukon. Mine is a 56 / stock engine / wing-X / vg's / stol but a little heavy on amphibs. I do agree though that the 182 & 206 are still nice aircraft and are the last two I've flown on wheels. Need to get out and get my feet working again.
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Re:

Hammer wrote:Strange thing...once I got accustomed to thinking about a 200+ hp engine I started re-looking at Maule's. 180hp CS Maule's are rare, while 230hp Maules are pretty common.

I will grant that a 230hp M-5 appears to be a lot cheaper than an equivalent 50's era Cessna 180, and for absolutely no good reason I like the Lycoming engine better. Of course, the resale on a 180 is going to be far and away better than on a Maule.

So I called AOPA for some ballpark insurance quotes. Quotes are based on an 80K hull value and on my wifes' (soon to be) 100 hours tail wheel time. Here's how it went:

Cessna 170 w. 180hp $2100 year
Cessna 180 w. 220hp $2200 year
Maule M-5 w. 230hp $3300 year :shock:
Husky A1A w. 180hp $3400 year :shock: :shock:
Liability on any of them, about $650 per year.

At least I found something more expensive to insure than a Maule...

Maybe I'm foolish to consider the $3 per day sin tax for owning a Maule. Though on the other hand, that would cover maintainance for a year when nothing significant went wrong. Or enough gas to fly over 4000 miles. Or an instrument rating over the next five years. Or...well, or a lot of things.

The sad part is $1100 per year doesn't make a pile of beans if you buy an airplane that has problems you didn't know about. Risky business this airplane buying.



I realize this a quite an old thread, however I have one complicated question.
I am looking into buying a 180 and I am trying to "ballpark" my annual costs. In your opinion and best estimate assuming normal operations, 5-10 hrs of flight per month, what can I expect to pay for maintenance per year. Assume the engine is low time for the overhaul.

In addition, will I have to pay another $35k when TBO is up? Sorry for the ignorance on the subject, there's just not a lot of info online from guys that have experienced owning the 180 first hand.

I have allotted the following:

MX: $3k per year
Insurance: $3k per year
Hangar: $4k per year

How far off and dreaming am I?

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Re: What's so great about a Cessna 180?

I'm not so sure whats so great, but my friend who is religious about Cessna's, liked to show his sentiment towards us in the Piper, while heading to Sun N Fun, one year.! [-X
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Re: What's so great about a Cessna 180?

No one can really give you a good answer to that question. Insurance depends a lot on your experience and value of the airplane, check with an insurance company. Hanger rents vary a lot, so you will have to research what rent is at your local airports. The really tough one is mantainance. You never know about engines, but assuming it will last a long time, you still have the prop, engine mounts, tires, wheel brakes, possible paint issues in the future, fuel bladders are big one if they have not been replaced, com equipment, the list goes on. Lots of unknowns.

They are a great airplane, but like any other, you need to go in with both eyes open and always be prepared for the worst. As most will tell you, buy one that someone else has already spent all the money on and equipped it the way you would want, it will be way cheaper in the end. Now is a great to buy. Steve
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Re: What's so great about a Cessna 180?

I' =D> ve been lucky with my 180(I think)nothing major has gone wrong in 5 years of ownership.about 1000hrs since major o-470-k...between 1000 and 2500.00$ annuals...change the oil put gas in it and try to not break it.....the 180 kicks ass as an overall airplane...
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Re: What's so great about a Cessna 180?

Those figures look pretty good for the average guy.

In my world the hangar is cheaper and I've got more tailwheel time than average so my insurance is cheaper than those old quotes.
Maintenance for that is safe most likely with nothing horribly wrong.

Yes, you will have to spend about $35k when the TBO is up. You may find some cheaper overhauls but after you do the accessories and replace the lord mount or two that were bad and overhaul the prop and replace that worn baffling or two and replace a cable or two, it'll be $35 to 40k depending on the shop you go with.

Here are a couple of things to think about for the future of aircraft ownership that are making things a bit more unstable on cost budgeting.
AD's and age.
These things are just getting older and as we go there are more and more AD's coming out that potentially increase the cost of ownership and you should be ready for that. Every time I turn around I've got a letter from Cessna, or the FAA, or Continental. Just two weeks ago something about a backing plate on the magneto's. Last year cylinders, before that seat rails/stops, etc., etc., etc.
The other thing is the pure age of them. When I bought my '73 I only got about six months before I had to replace one fuel bladder. Then another six we replaced a cylinder because it hadn't flown much in the previous ten years.

I fly my 180 an average of 125 hours a year, it looks like this;
Fixed expenses-
Ins. $1,900
Hangar $2,400
Payment $7,200

Total $11,500 = $92.00 an hour for 125 hours per year.

Variable expenses (per hour)
Fuel (now)- $70.00 (14 gal x $5.00)
Airframe-$12.00 ($1,500 / 125 hours)
Engine- $12.00 ($1,500 / 125 hours) hourly for yearly maintenance
Engine - $58.33 ($35,000 / 600 hours) hourly for overhaul cost, I bought mine with 800 hours on it, 1400 TBO, 600 hours to save $35k
General upgrade slush fund - $20.00 ($2,500 per year. This is to pay for future GPS upgrades, skis, float maintenace, radio upgrade, etc.) I also use this for the unexpected AD, etc. A friggin' handheld GPS costs $1,500 and the XM subscription is like $350 per year!!!
Your $92 from above fixed expenses!!

TOTAL PER HOUR FOR 125 HOURS PER YEAR FOR ME!!!! = $264.33 per hour for everything!
That's a grand total of $33,041.25 per year for 125 hours. Of course if I fly a little less my hourly is more but gross is less and if I fly a little more then my hourly is less but my gross is more.

Not many people want to look at the numbers like this because it shows the real cost of ownership while you have a payment and are really putting money away for future work like engines, etc. They are machines and they don't go forever. People who don't do that are the ones you see in Trade A Plane that have the runout engined twin that is being sold for $50,000.
I work airplanes for a living and as such I have to look at the numbers like this to be in business in another ten years.
It's not for no reason that Cessna 180's, 185's, 206's are being chartered for $385 to $450 an hour now.

They are reliable as hell, are fairly simple to operate and maintain BUT they still cost more than you think.
Hope this helps you make the right decision.
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Re: What's so great about a Cessna 180?

Good numbers--I came up with $180/hr, for my Experimental Tundra---which should be expected, since we don't have to pay for Cessna parts ( FAA production parts--see my comments in Tundra re fuel valve comparison) and do our own "condition inspection"--anyway, totally agree with your numbers--some smaller, lighter experimental cost less, some bigger engines cost more--but the numbers don't lie--
So, our sport is a $20-25,000/yr addiction--BUT, WE FLY :D
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