Backcountry Pilot • Whats your VMC scan ?

Whats your VMC scan ?

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Whats your VMC scan ?

Whats your practice and do you ask passengers to scan for traffic ?
Having some near miss experiences, I have seen pilots go past me that were not looking outside.
I have seen video's posted here where pilots eyes are closed pretending to knap leaving the non pilot girlfriend to do what ?
I have had more than my share of screwing off for fun, but this issue has always concerned me.
I have a freind who plays with gadjets too much in the air he could do on the ground or sim mode and I wont fly with him.
Thats my 2 cents ,whats yours ?

Quoting MTV from the thread about steep pattern turns,
§ 91.13 Careless or reckless operation.
(a) Aircraft operations for the purpose of air navigation.
No person may operate an aircraft in a careless or reckless manner so as to endanger the life or property of another.
or:
§ 91.113 Right-of-way rules: Except water operations.
(a) Inapplicability. This section does not apply to the operation of an aircraft on water.
(b) General. When weather conditions permit, regardless of whether an operation is conducted under instrument flight rules or visual flight rules, vigilance shall be maintained by each person operating an aircraft so as to see and avoid other aircraft. When a rule of this section gives another aircraft the right-of-way, the pilot shall give way to that aircraft and may not pass over, under, or ahead of it unless well clear.
winger offline
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Re: Whats your VMC scan ?

I don't generally ask the pax to watch for other traffic, unless we're doing something like loitering looking at elk, whales, etc. I remember my first airplane ride- the pilot (father of a friend) told me to sing out if I saw another airplane. A while later, my "I see an airplane" had him freaking out looking for it until he realized that it was about 3 miles away. Got an ass-chewing for that one, but hey- he never told me he was only concerned with nearby airplanes.
I've had airplanes go right by me without any kind of maneuvering or avoidance-- I always wonder if they saw me or if they were even looking out the window at all. I agree that too many pilots are messing with their gizmos (GPS, ipad, TCAS, radio, bluetooth, music imput,etc) at the expense of not looking out the window enough. It's a very real distraction, even if you know better. One old duffer I know was telling me all about how we have to "see and be seen" (I think he meant see and avoid)-- but a buddy of mine who's flown with him says his head is continually down in the cockpit instead of scanning outside. One time, he was on downwind at a busy uncontrolled airport, head down while talking to ATC for a mode c check-- instead of being on the CTAF freq & keeping his head on a swivel. My buddy won't fly with him anymore.
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Re: Whats your VMC scan ?

VMC I keep eyeballs out the window as much as possible, and within 5 miles of an uncontrolled airport I only look inside for a few seconds at a time. The MP-3 player is turned off well before I get to the pattern, the GPS is ignored when I get into traffic, and if my passenger starts talking I shut off the intercom. My worst experience with someone "clueless in the pattern" was 22 years ago at Nampa (MAN) when I was on downwind. I heard a 182 report he was "2 miles south", I looked and saw him less than 1 mile away, pointed straight at me. Just then someone else keyed up on unicom and read the first chapter of moby dick, while the 182 continued at me and I shoved the nose down so he could enter downwind right over me. When unicom was finally clear I looked up , read his numbers, and called "Cessna #####, Ercoupe 86Hotel is 100 feet directly below you", I got a surprissed "O, that's where you are" from him.
Dale Moul offline
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Re: Whats your VMC scan ?

It's a tough one - I've got f-all time logged and already had 4 close calls where they've come close enough to see the pilot, who wasn't looking or didn't see. Plus countless others where we did communicate and it was no drama.

Most times you are in the back country, just following the rules about which side of the valley to fly on keeps it safe. It's coast lines, lakes and rivers which seems to cause trouble. Plus one topdressing pilot doing a "vertically agressive" U turn.

The last one we were maybe 500ft AGL flying through a 3-way mountain pass with limited room, and had a friendly 185 appear at the same level coming the other way, everyone's looking and sees each other, gives a radio call - and it's someone you know. Big wingover, lovely day flying all round. =D>

Flying down the side of a lake at 2000ft AGL and having an LSA whip under your wing at about 100ft range, and then not respond on the local frequency, is quite a different day out... [-X

If I see traffic - I always identify straight away. I learned to fly outside controlled airspace so I always assume they're a risk to me until they're gone. Guys who aren't familiar with uncontrolled airspace seem to give trouble in the back country, IMHO. Even if I'm not PIC I point traffic out and offer our position description to the pilot, to prompt him to give a call. I am blessed with unusually good eyesight (for now), so I often spot traffic a long way out.
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Re: Whats your VMC scan ?

Passengers should always be asked to scan and advise of any traffic. Multiple sets of eyes are always better than just one pair.

Roughly ten years ago two float planes collided mid-air near Ketchikan. Believe it or not, several passengers in the plane which overtook and struck the slower plane saw the slower plane long before the collision: they just sat there like lumps and watched as their plane flew into the other plane. Fortunately there were no injuries or fatalities (although both planes were significantly damaged), but the whole event could easily have been avoided if the pax had been advised to sing out if they saw any traffic.
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Re: Whats your VMC scan ?

I used to have to fly 402s West bound into the Sun. Found myself hiding below the glareshield many times.
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Re: Whats your VMC scan ?

I think about this constantly. Even on my solo cross country I got freaked out by traffic. Yes, I had plenty separation, but because I was so green it still made an impression. It never ceases to amaze me how such a large sky can seem so small when it comes to traffic.

There was one event that really bothered me flying with another pilot. Even since I started flying again, I never give up my diligence even when someone else is PIC. So, on this flight, PIC is chatting with FSS about something or other and I call out traffic. The traffic didn't appear large enough to be an issue, but shortly thereafter they were close and only slightly lower than us. I could tell he was annoyed with me that I brought this up while he was on the radio, but no one ever crashed because they didn't open their flight plan (that I know of).
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Re: Whats your VMC scan ?

Just fly below 500ft agl all the time and you pretty much have the place to yourself! My scariest encounter was at Johnson Creek. I was #3 of a group coming back for the day from the Big Creek drainage and we all came in from Yellow Pine. A rogue airplane was on a downwind and made a hard descending turn onto a base right in front of me. I seen him on downwind and just assumed he was going to continue and swing in behind us. I had to manuever fairly aggressively to get out of the way and then S turn the last 1/2 mile to the rwy to try and get some separation. Never heard a single call. My biggest pet peeve is the first chapter of Moby Dick guys especially when it's busy. Because of my slow speed I've also been overtaken on downwind on several occasions despite letting the guy behind me know I was a "slow mover". Because of this I generally fly TPA a couple hundred feet low intentionally anymore. It's scary when someone smokes past you co altitude a couple hundred feet off your wing on downwind and never sees you.
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Re: Whats your VMC scan ?

Two things I ask my frequent flying co-pilots while in the pattern or critical stage of flight:

Point to aircraft they see with their finger rather then vocalizing 2 o'clock or up there…This keeps the distraction to a minimum.

and

When my head/eyes are pointed down at sectional theirs goes up and outside.

Also, when making my first call before entering the pattern with the sun in my eyes I end my announcement by actually saying, … five to the East with the sun in my eyes.

I operate from a strip where most of the pilots have developed some bad radio habits and these folks have actually complained that I make too many position reports!? I just politely let them complain about always knowing where I am in the sky while wishing they would do the same.

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Re: Whats your VMC scan ?

I agree with Avid Flyer that low is the last frontier. I always make final (even though it is short) at a slight angle to the runway. I always make a steep turn away from the airport and give long final a final check before I commit to land. If corporate or regional is out there with the landing light on, I do a 360 and land behind him. Usually, he never knew I was there. Because I sprayed for years and then flew pipeline, my scan was outside 99% all day long. With practice listening to and feeling the airplane, we soon realize that nothing inside the airplane is necessary; ever.
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Re: Whats your VMC scan ?

I read this thread this morning and thought a little about what I'd say, then I headed off to my favorite big grass strip (KAQO) to work on wheel landings and flew past my least favorite airport (KDZB), a little airport with landing fees and where the pilots measure your worth by how many turbines your airplane has.

Within ten miles of the airport I announce my intentions to fly by, then again as I near the runway (about five miles off the end). And as has happened before here comes someone more important then me on his five mile final, no radio communication, and he passes in front of me about 100 feet above me and maybe 400 feet in front. Jerk.

So what's my VMC scan? Looking out for clowns like this. I expect them to be there and sometimes they are. I've ridden with a few of them, they fly glass panel planes and spend nearly all the time staring at their pretty screens. They have no situational awareness cause they almost never look outside the cockpit. Of course these are usually the same idiots that fly huge patterns and drag the airplane in on the prop, way too fast and land long.

I try to avoid airports like these as much as possible but sometimes it's easier to pass near them. When I do I'll generally drop down nearer the ground, where they don't like to fly, easier to stay alive down low.

Anyway I feel much better after this little vent, thanks.

Oh, and I fly with my marker beacon, strobes, nav lights and MaxPulse taxi/landing lights on - just in case one of them might actually look outside.
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Re: Whats your VMC scan ?

I've always been one to advise my passengers to watch for traffic, though I don't rely on them to do so when they aren't experienced pilots themselves. When I'm a passenger I'm always watching for traffic too... in a midair collision it makes little difference if you're sitting in the left or right seat!

In my experiences (which are limited compared to many of you) the collision issue becomes much more relevant in ANY area that might tend to concentrate aviation activity. Though I'm not an experienced mountain/backcountry flyer (hence why I joined this forum to start learning), I'd imagine that mountain passes and valley routes through the high mountains would be areas that increase the risk of inadvertent encounters with other aircraft.

I've personally flown mostly in the midwest, and also out here in the Denver area. While Ohio seemed to be a generally more congested place to fly (with airports everywhere), it was also a place without a lot of attractions that concentrated aviation activities... the state isn't really known for dramatic scenery, there aren't mountain passes there, and the downtown areas of the big cities are (largely) covered by more restrictive airspace.

Here in Denver I fly fairly regularly on a Bell 407 in the metro area. The steps of the Capitol Building here in Denver sit at precisely 5,280 feet, or so they say, and the floor of the Denver Class Bravo is at 8000 MSL (the fact that our airport is so far from town allows for some "free" airspace over the downtown area). As such, there's a somewhat narrow window of flyable airspace above the downtown buildings, and this area seems to attract quite a bit of sight-seeing general aviation traffic. Things usually work pretty well when everyone's talking, but there have been a few close calls with guys buzzing through there without (apparently) paying attention, or radioing their position/intentions. Our particular mission generally puts us lower, slower, and orbiting, so we don't often run into too many problems. But, still, a northbound Cessna at around 6000 ft ran up on us a few months ago while toying around the buildings a bit lower than he should have been. Fortunately the majority of our flights through that area are at night, so we don't often have too much traffic loitering around when we're up.
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Re: Whats your VMC scan ?

A bit north, from BJC up to Fort Collins where I live, I've seen quite a few close calls. The airspace in that "corridor" is a funnel for traffic.

About ten years ago, when local aviation traffic was much greater than now, the weekends were full of people going to and from FNL and GXY at 1000 AGL. When we'd head to Greeley for breakfast I'd always try to be at some oddball altitude to reduce the risk.
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