Perhaps this sounds like a silly question, and hopefully this is the right section for posting it, but what kind of options do you guys see for parking personally owned aircraft?

I've never owned a plane before, but have been seriously considering the purchase of one (more flexibility than renting). I'm trying to become an informed consumer, as I've only ever looked at this hobby from a renter's perspective in the past.

Here are the hangups I'm running into:

1) Hangars at KBJC (Rocky Mountain) and KAPA (Centennial) seem to have waiting lists the length of a phone book.
2) I can't find a lot of information only about long-term outdoor tie-down costs.
3) If I buy a rag-n-tube plane I'm not so sure that outdoor tie-down would be suitable, though it might work for a metal aircraft.

A few of the things I'm wondering about:

1) Are there any good places to buy hangars in the area?
1a) If so, do any of the ownership options include land ownership, or are hangars always done with land leases (as I've seen online so far)?
2) Can I find some kind of solution (ex: outdoor storage) in a hurry if I find a plane, or are tie-down spots also typically on wait lists?

Thanks for any advice you can provide!

Not from CO, but have spent enough time there to have a potential idea for you, and it is what I did when I lived in the greater Pxh area and was also faced with giant waits to get in a hangar. Heck it's also what I did when needing a hangar when I relocated to our present home simply because there were no hangars available locally.

Since you are renting now, flying no doubt requires a little more pre planning & time than having an airplane with your name on it gassed up and in the hangar 24/7. Why not put your name on the list that makes the most sense and convert that extra time into travel time to an outlying rural town that might be able to accommodate your plane until the one in the big city opens up. There are a many small town airports surrounding Denver within an hour +/- drive, and the sad truth is that the way GA is going, most of these look like ghost towns, while the big city airports with the jet set crowds seem to be doing just fine.

Ya I know... no body wants to drive an hour or two to get to there plane, but if it get's your foot in the door, what the heck?

Take care, Rob

I recently had this very dilemma as I looked for places to keep my Cub this spring. A few observations/lessons from my experience:

1) The hangar lists actually seem to turn over faster than you might think. I placed my name on lists at Front Range, Boulder, and Erie. Within two months I was offered a too-big T-hangar that I declined. A month more and I received what felt like a flood of offers.
2) There is unlisted supply available to the industrious hangar space seeker. In my impatience I began driving out to outlying airports and looking for listings posted in FBO lobbies. The first guy I called couldn't accommodate me, but referred me to a friend at the same airport who had space. That is where I ended up renting (at Platte Valley Airpark...couldn't be happier there). I also asked for leads from all of my Front Range pilot contacts. That led to a few other unlisted opportunities, albeit with some waits or disadvantages like being parked in the back corner of a crowded hangar. Bottom line here: ask for leads, call hangar owners, and network your way to a new home. A guy who moved his plane from Boulder to the hangar that I am in used this strategy, too.
3) At one point I was getting desperate and looked for short-term solutions. Cheyenne and others (Meadow Lake outside of the Springs seems to consistently have hangars listed for rent) could accommodate me in executive hangars for close to the monthly rate of renting on longer-term lease at the Denver area airports. As Rob points out, the drive would have been a downside, but there would be light at the end of the tunnel being on several wait lists closer to home.
4) Having a rag-and-tube airplane, outdoor storage never crossed my mind. I figured if I couldn't manage to store the airplane out of the elements, then I wasn't in a position to keep it. The hail storms that rolled through the area confirmed my thinking on this. I'd rather drive to Greeley or Cheyenne to fly rather than have my airplane damaged or destroyed by that super cell that happened to blow through.
5) As far as ownership goes...someday I might have more to add on that subject. For now renting is working out OK for me.

In the end, there are hangar spaces available, and if you have 3-6 months to hunt, I am confident you can find a spot. Give me a shout if you'd like to talk more.

...not much else to add. Simply keep at the hunt and a hangar will turn up, but be prepared for a bit of drive to it. I am told FTG has/had space on a regular basis although I have never looked much into it. I wouldn't bother too much with BJC even though I have lots of time out of there. BJC has so much business traffic (and a convenient location) so the wait list will always be years deep. I was on the BDU wait list for ~6 months before something became available there, although there are some great guys based out of BDU.

I live in Denver and base my plane out of KLMO in Longmont. It is too far, but I have friends up there and like the amount of airport life & builds going on. The absolute worst part of owning a Cub is being able to land it darn near anywhere but still having to park it so darn far away!

One last tidbit: I recently tallied my hours for the year for the insurance company. I actually flew more in some previous years renting than I have this year owning. Between maintenance and "upgrades", I have clocked many (many) hours this year wrenching and a lot less in the air. I am OK with that, but keep in mind that when you own the plane you are footing the entire maintenance bill (and headache of getting it done if you are certified) rather than having the FBO take care of it. Some of us can't rent what we want to fly however, so owning is the only way to go.

I would not hesitate to store a tube and fabric plane outdoors for a couple of months for a temporary situation. Personally I want to be in a hangar permanently - but the cost of hangar rent can easily cross over the cost of recovering and painting the plane in about 4 years or so (assuming you can do so for $15k). It hardly ever hails - and the metal planes suffer - lots of them on the ramp too. You will have insurance, right?

There is tons and tons of tie down availability. Here at BDU you can tie down for $40/month (from memory) and do it today. My hangar is private and is $290/month. I think I waited about a month or two on the wait list to get in. I've switched 3-4 times in the last 3 years - never had to wait long. I've been at longmont and boulder.

I'm pretty sure if you beat the bushes at Erie, Platte Valley, Longmont, and Boulder you will find something quickly. Call the FBO and ask them to look at the postings pinned on the bulletin boards if you don't want to drive out there. Also ask around about shared hangars - often these go word of mouth.

Thanks for the advice, everyone. I guess I kind of figured that the answer would involve finding airports in more outlying areas. It sucks to drive an hour or more to go fly, especially living just 15 minutes from KBJC. But, KBJC and KAPA are busy airports that seem to cater more and more to the business jet crowd than the guy flying a 50 year old piston driven airplane!

But, at least I've got a few ideas on where to looks now

For what it's worth, most of the float planes here sit out for their entire lives. Not something I would do, but other than the occasional hail event, they seem to last a long time without recovering, but paint does fade, just factor that in. I have driven an hour to the airport before I built the first hangar, did not fly as much because of it.

Steve

It's +/- 50 minutes from our house in Fort Collins to my hangar at Greeley. That came about because I had a hangar at Fort Collins Downtown when they closed it in November 2006--really convenient, 10 minutes from my office downtown and 18 minutes from our house. So I got on the wait lists for Fort Collins/Loveland, Greeley, and Cheyenne.

In the meanwhile, I found a ranch strip with a hangar, located between Wellington and Nunn, which was about a 45-50 minute drive. The downside was that winter flying was minimal if the big drift across the runway hadn't melted, and at the time there were no runway lights, so staying night current was harder. Also I had to fly to get fuel or mechanical work, although that wasn't a problem. The real upside was that I gained some really nice friends in the owners.

Almost exactly a year after 3V5 closed, I got a call from Greeley that they had several T-hangars suddenly become available. I looked at the one I have, and it isn't great, but it works--solid concrete floor, electricity, reasonably weather resistant, at a very nice airport. At the time, $190/month--now it's $210, still pretty reasonable. The next month, I got a call from Fort Collins/Loveland, that they had several hangars become available. I looked, but they were less acceptable--party walls that were only 6' high, so security was compromised. The doors were better--bifold rather than sliding--but that's all. I timed the drive from our house, and it's at least 28 minutes, so the most I'd save in driving time is about 22 minutes. It wasn't worth moving again.

Another few months went by, and I got a call from Cheyenne, and they had several hangars, too. Meanwhile, over the last several years I've had solicitations from several private hangar owners, trying to sell or lease private hangars at both Greeley and Fort Collins/Loveland.

So there are definitely hangars available--just look for them, get on waiting lists, and when your name comes up at the one you want, grab it. If you don't yet own an airplane at the time, you can rent it out (make sure that the hangar lease you have allows sub-leasing or sub-renting). I had my hangar at 3V5 for about 3 months before I bought my airplane, with an arrangement with the airport that they could use it for transients, and for every night it was in use, my hangar rent was reduced by $10. One month, I actually came out ahead!

Cary

If you're just gonna fly to the airport to fly, then drive home, a long rive is a bummer. If you're also gonna spend time there hanging out, that long drive maybe isns't quite as bad. I know people who purposely base their airplanes at an airport that's not the closest one to home, because there's more of an airport community there-- EAA chapter, local pilot assn., homebuilders, re\storers, café, etc. Of course, then youd probably be going to the airport more often, just to hang out, o the bummer aspect of the long drive becomes an issue again.

hotrod180 wrote:If you're just gonna fly to the airport to fly, then drive home, a long rive is a bummer. If you're also gonna spend time there hanging out, that long drive maybe isns't quite as bad. I know people who purposely base their airplanes at an airport that's not the closest one to home, because there's more of an airport community there-- EAA chapter, local pilot assn., homebuilders, re\storers, café, etc. Of course, then youd probably be going to the airport more often, just to hang out, o the bummer aspect of the long drive becomes an issue again.

I'd agree with that. I usually go have breakfast or lunch at the Barnstormer cafe at GXY, then go fly. If I'm going on a trip, it's not that big a deal, other than the drive home gets a little onerous after a long day in the air. If I'm going over for the day, to putter around in the hangar, have lunch, go fly, putter around some more when I put the airplane away, then that's the best--the drive over and back is only a little piece of the day.

I'd love to live on an airpark and have the airplane right there, but that's not in the cards. At least my drive over to Greeley is pleasant, driving through the farm country.

Cary

Did anyone end up finding anything at KBJC? Also, does anyone have or know of a 172 or 182 for sale?

Jason

Cary,
Your airpark comment is spot on. Extremely lucky that we bought a lot at KEIK Air Park in 89' ($24K) and built in 91'-did most of the work so we could afford to keep our 62' 210 and 1/2 partnership in TWs. We just love front range view and walk downstairs to hangar. Fast forward 28 yrs and scrape off house/lot just sold for $540K and WE still have our short hangar walk and great view.

We spent 8 yrs working in TX and hangar rental around Austin and San Antonio was equally hard to find and expensive. Hondo, TX (KHDO) was a great place for flying and hangar rental. I've decided when we can scrape cash together we'll build hangars for rental property as pilots are much better renters than typical house renters.
Jack

I live in Cheyenne about 1.45hr north. Absolutely no way in hell Id leave an airplane on the ramp more than a day or two and only with good weather forecasted. In the last 72 hrs we have had tornadoes, hail storms and 60 mile per hr gusts. To each his own. Weather on the high plains year round can be unpredictable and extremely bad at times.

gregwyatt wrote:I live in Cheyenne about 1.45hr north. Absolutely no way in hell Id leave an airplane on the ramp more than a day or two and only with good weather forecasted. In the last 72 hrs we have had tornadoes, hail storms and 60 mile per hr gusts. To each his own. Weather on the high plains year round can be unpredictable and extremely bad at times.

Very micro stuff happening that close to mountains as well. When I bought my 180 and couldn't get a hangar immediately, I asked my boss (owner of the FBO at KBDU) if there was much hail damage there that I should be worried about. He said in his 13 years of ownership, running 8 rental planes that live outside year round, he had no hail damage. Compare that to 6 miles east at KEIK where every airplane looks like golfball with damage all over. Apparently the hail just doesn't have time to form before the storms hit Boulder? Funny thing is that one time 3 of the rentals were at KBJC just to the south overnight getting ADSB installed and all 3 got hail damage.

I ended up sneaking my way into a hangar a couple months later thanks to a local BCP member and still have it.