The past few winters haven't been that applicable to ski flying at low elevations , but I'm still really excited about giving ski flying a try in our Bearhawk we are finishing up.

Does anyone have any thoughts on Federal vs Airglas/Landes? School me on skis, I'm learning. I've been told that going a size bigger in ski is a great idea for floatation, I'm planning on putting UHMW bottoms on whatever I get if they don't already have them. Also, I've chosen to go "Straight" skis, not penetration or hydraulic.

The Bearhawk is a 2500 gross aircraft, I'm thinking a pair of 3000 Federal skis would be a great choice. Thoughts?

Also, do all sets of Federal skis have the "boss"? that allows the bar/wheel dohickey for moving the aircraft around? ha

Is federal the same as Fluidyne? I see that name around too...

Why no retracts or penetrators? Datum 3500s are sweet! Electrical, no hydraulic lines. Summit Aircraft makes some cool penetration skis here in Oregon. Both are probably less than the cost of straight skis by the certified brands.

Seems like Alaska hasn't been getting the big snows the last 2 seasons, might be nice to have options.

Having wheels is paramount, especially at low elevation. Opinion.

The Scout GW = 2150# and we use a larger ski http://www.wipaire.com/myaircraft/american_champion/8GCBC/c3000a-skis.php

Better floatations but, heavy in contrast to lighter GW skis.

Note #1: 8GCBC's smallest TC tire is 8.5 therefore it requires the C3000A STC instead of C3000

Note #2: I have only one season (2012, Oregon) on skis and have limited knowledge on other brands. But, would recommend Wip because the skis worked as expected. Hydraulics are "plug and play" with amphibs too.

I was planning on using Datum 3500s on my BH but another BH owner put some on his plane and had to go with single puck calipers and clock them as high as possible. That is a deal breaker for me. I will be building my own.

whee wrote: I will be building my own.

This is very tempting, especially given the conventional construction of the Datums.

Thanks for the info guys!

A used pair of Federal 3000 straights seem to be pretty "cheap", say 3000$ for a descent set... and I've seen lots of Airglas sets for 2.5 - 3k. Going straight skis seems the most economical route that was the only reason for the preference, but I agree having the option with pens would be a lot more convenient.

Those Datums are really cool Z, I hadn't heard of those before. Electric actuators would be sweet!

I like your idea on building your own Whee, have you found any plans? We have double puck calipers too.

If it keeps up like this, I'm gonna have to sell the snowblower attatchment for the tractor! We just don't get snow like I remember as a kid. Oh well, I wont complain less time shoveling and sweeping the airplane!

Zzz wrote:Why no retracts or penetrators? Datum 3500s are sweet! Electrical, no hydraulic lines. Summit Aircraft makes some cool penetration skis here in Oregon. Both are probably less than the cost of straight skis by the certified brands.

Seems like Alaska hasn't been getting the big snows the last 2 seasons, might be nice to have options.

Simple answers:

Penetration skis.....those tires protruding through the ski create a tremendous amount of drag. Depending on snow conditions, you may not be able to get airborne again after landing. Some are a little better than others, and on hard packed or really shallow snow, this is irrelevant. But, in any kind of deep snow, it's huge. Also, compared to straight skis, they are HEAVY, since you're lugging around a set of wheels/tires/brakes as well as the skis.

Retractables......$$$$$$$ and weight. Lots of both.

As to what type of straight skis to run, there are quite a few options out there for a ~ 2500 pound airplane. The old Federals are pretty heavy and the bottoms are pretty small, but they are hell for stout. Like, waaaaay stout. They also have tunnel bottoms, so adding UHMW to the bottoms is more problematic. If you do add UHMW, extend the plastic beyond the edges by a couple inches to increase the size of the bottoms. Frankly, the Federal 3000s are probably overkill for a 2500 pound airplane.

The Landes 2500 skis would probably work fine for this application. The Landes 3000s might be a bit big, but if the added weight doesn't scare you......

Lots of other straight skis out there. Atlee Dodge skis are good skis, and if you can find a set of really nasty ones where the wood bottoms are shot, salvage the pedestals and fabricate composite bottoms. Or, since you're E/AB, find someone with a set of the Atlee skis, and weld up copies of the pedestals. Atlees might even sell you a set of pedestals for that matter. Then you can make the skis as big as you like.

Be aware, however, that certified skis have been tested, and proven in the real world......if you aren't VERY familiar with how skis work, and you're determined to fabricate your own, very carefully copy a certified design, rather than design your own. Trust me, sometimes what appears to be a minor design change can result in some pretty ugly consequences.

But, bottom line: If you can get away with straight skis, you will likely have much better performance.

MTV

Great post MTV, thanks!

At this point, I'm kinda "fabbed out" and want to go flying! Sorry guys, but 7 years has taken its toll on me... ha I'm feeling like paying 2.5 - 3k for a decent set of a used certified straight skis, even if I need to do a little refurb on them, is the way I want to go.

I also am concerned about the floation and weight of the more complex skis.

I cannot believe the prices of USED federal 3000 hydraulics... there is a set for $8800 right now in my area! I guess this aviation thing hasn't fully been assimilated into my psyche if I'm still getting suprised...

Been seeing about 3 pairs of Landes/Airglas 3000 skis for every pair of 3000 Federals on the used market lately... I was wondering about the longevity/durability of fiberglass skis vs the apparently stout oldschool aluminum Federals...

Roger that on the extending the UHMW past the edges of the bottom skins... will do for sure.

Another data point: I know of a set of Federal AWB 2500 hydraulic retractable skis that recently sold for $9000 in Fairbanks. They were in very good condition, but......

Aero "semi retractable" 2800 skis now list for $9000 new. Wipaire C-2200 hydraulic retractable skis list for around $16 to $18 K new.

A set of Atlee or Northland ski pedestals would be easy to fab up bottoms for from composite.

MTV

Aero skis are good skis as well. Had a set on my Citabria. They are straight skis, or as MTV mentioned, they also have the semi retractable.

I have a pair of Aero M-2000 straight skis that I don't use anymore. Also a pair of wheels that fit into the pedestals. (for ground handling only)
If you extend the UHMW they'll carry plenty more weight. More info/pix on request .

I'm the one that installed the Datum 2500's on another Bearhawk. Jean-Marc of Datum Air extended the bottoms a little and they work great on the 540 Bearhawk. They are very nice quality and well thought out. The Canadian exchange rate puts them under $6000 brand new, not bad. But there is not much room under the tunnel for the brakes, thus as John said single pucks clocked as far a possible but if you're serious it's not that bad of a swap.