I have a 1962 C182 with original windows and will be taking a long trip with a friend soon. He wants to take photos out the pax window, which looks pretty bad. My pax window does not open. Given we want to keep costs low, what would be the advice for best replacement window plastic? A deep bubble window? shallow bubble window? Flat window similar to current one? Clear, or tinted? Any suggestions would be welcome.

Sean

I'm about to place an order with GLAP for all new glass. I'm interested in the responses too...

Some of the side windows in patrol Cessnas had the bubble. I always patrolled primarily through the front, but they didn't distort badly in turns. It gave more elbow room in the 152.

seward wrote:I have a 1962 C182 with original windows and will be taking a long trip with a friend soon. He wants to take photos out the pax window, which looks pretty bad. My pax window does not open. Given we want to keep costs low, what would be the advice for best replacement window plastic? A deep bubble window? shallow bubble window? Flat window similar to current one? Clear, or tinted? Any suggestions would be welcome.

Do you mean that it literally doesn't open at all? Not even a couple inches like the ones I've flown. Because if it does open even a little bit I've heard rumors that you can remove that one screw and open it all the way. That's the right solution from a photographic standpoint.

The bubbles will distort, but are surprisingly inexpensive. (surprising to me anyway. I bought a Maule partly because Cessna parts are so expensive, but this part looks damn reasonable! http://www.glapinc.com/Cessna/182/c-182b.htm#bubble)

The flat ones will be better, but will be surprisingly expensive for a piece of acrylic.

Another possibility to avoid shooting through crummy windows is to mount a gopro on the strut and trigger it with the keyfob remote.

Not sure why you would even consider tinted from a photographic standpoint. Best case scenario is that the exposures will be longer and have more motion blur, worst case is that they will have a tint that cannot be removed without skewing the color of the photo.

They do have the right non opening window with the photo port.

Thank you for the quick responses. The window does not open at all. Not hinged, nothing. Not designed to open. I dont really do any photo work myself, so glad to hear that tinted would be bad. It looks like I will order a flat one. However I am very interested in the flat one with a photo port. Who sells that?

Sean

Lots of Cessnas have the right side window fixed. An opening right side window was an expensive option for most years, and the cost of installing one after market is prohibitive--the cheapest way to do it is to replace the entire door with one that has an opening window.

The very least expensive solution is for the photographer to ride in the left seat. Remove the screw from the window brace, and when the airplane is airborne, the relative wind will hold the window up against the wing. That works extremely well. I've done that many times.

So practice flying from the right seat. That takes surprisingly little time to become comfortable, and that solves your problem entirely.

Oh, remind your friend to keep his camera tethered to his neck, and not to lean out the window. The wind going by can be pretty powerful, and his wouldn't be the first camera to disappear that way.

Cary

Maybe the short bus I went to school on was an omen, but I didn't find learning to fly right seat very easy at all. In fact, I thought learning to fly a tail dragger was quite a bit easier than going over to the right seat...too much muscle memory in the hands I guess. Go to add throttle and end up pushing the nose down instead... very awkward while in the flare.

Shooting through any plexiglass is going to deteriorate the image, but my deep bubble windows are surprisingly clear. There are only a couple places that have distortion, and you can see it though the viewfinder. An advantage of the bubbles is you'll get less reflection if you're shooting down than with flat glass. Regular cleaning with Plexus will keep windows clearer, as the wax in Plexus fills the micro scratches.

This is shot through the bubble.

Cary wrote:So practice flying from the right seat. That takes surprisingly little time to become comfortable, and that solves your problem entirely.

I've heard that said before. I wish is was true for me. I've got 15 years and a couple thousand hours in the left seat of my current plane. Transitioning to the right seat has been like learning to write cursive with my left hand. It may eventually become legible, but it won't ever be pretty. (I did empty out the seat pockets on my first stall recovery . . . .)

YMMV (and for your sake, I hope it does)

CAVU

The photo shot through the deep bubble window (6"?) looks awesome. Very good information from everyone and greatly appreciated. It looks like the choice will be between the deep bubble and the flat window with a photo port. About $200 for the bubble and $470 for the window port. The ported window is great for cabin airflow, which would be nice for the trip (Baja), but perhaps not as useful over the long haul as the plane lives in Alaska.

Hammer wrote:Regular cleaning with Plexus will keep windows clearer, as the wax in Plexus fills the micro scratches.

Yes, but what percentage of their sales do they donate to BCP?

Teasing aside, our cleaner has a polish also.

seward wrote:The photo shot through the deep bubble window (6"?) looks awesome. Very good information from everyone and greatly appreciated. It looks like the choice will be between the deep bubble and the flat window with a photo port. About $200 for the bubble and $470 for the window port. The ported window is great for cabin airflow, which would be nice for the trip (Baja), but perhaps not as useful over the long haul as the plane lives in Alaska.

FWIW, you can improve cabin airflow significantly with this kit: http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/a ... ey=3446256 It significantly improves the air movement in warm weather over the stock fruit juice cans, and also seals better when closing them. It also improves the heater in cold weather, as the air can move in and through the cabin more readily. I've had the kit on my airplane for more than a dozen years and have been very satisfied with it.

Cary

Not sure what latching mechanism you have on your window.
In my C-180, I was able to replace a pivoting rivit at the window frame with a removable clevis pin.
I simply remove the clevis pin and the window opens and sits flush with the bottom of the wing.
Thousands of aerial photos later, the window has many hours open ... No problems.

Dang, Hammer, that is a beautiful picture.

For economical results, just remove the old one and trace on a piece of acrylic and cut with a plexiglass jigsaw blade a hair bigger, then belt sand right down to the profile. New, clear windows will give great photo results. The pilot side will get a bit more dust scratches from operating on dirt over time, but the passenger side will stay nice. 0.2 micron rubbing compound and 10 minutes or so per window will get it almost as good as new periodically.

I used Great Lakes for mine, and it worked well, but subsequently helped someone and the fit using the DIY method was better and costed a fraction as much.

My 180 has 6" bubbles (we call them the double D's). They work fine for photography but do take a little technique to not get distortion. What they do best though, is give elbow room. For that, they are wonderful and it's amazing how much roomier that 42" feels when you just rest your arm out over the door.

Thanks to everyone for the ideas and suggestions. The window is not designed to open, so no latch to work on. I ordered a bubble window and with luck we will get it installed in a few weeks.

Sean

I'd have to seek out a reference if you need proof, but I believe removing the screw to allow the window to hinge up 90° is approved.

Consider putting your photographer in the rear seat behind you with the window open. Worked really well in my 210. I just pulled my seat ahead and upright a bit extra while in flight. Upside is that you and he are focusing on the same target.

Another tip my passenger taught me was to fly rectangles around any subject. Circles have one wing low all the time. Rectangles, you lift the wing out of the way for each level leg, and bank hard at each corner to minimize time with the wing in the way.

Rectangle sounds good. Energy management turn is the only safe tight turn down low. Pitch up a bit before the turn. Slower reduces radius and the extra altitude becomes gravity thrust to finish the turn safely.

The idea of the rectangle pattern makes sense,and we will give it a try. Pinecone, sorry for being unclear, but the window in question on my plane is riveted in...no hinges, it does not open. Not all Pax windows on 182s open. On my plane only the Pilot side opens,and we are going to change the pax window.

thanks again everyone

Sean