Many of you are flying kits you've assembled yourselves, and some of you are about to build your second plane of the same design (you know who you are.) This leads me to the obvious conclusion that, like everything in life, your first effort can always stand some improvement.

A few questions:

1. What techniques or tricks did you learn/perfect late in your build that you wished you'd known at the start?
2. What are the must-have components/parts/upgrades not included in your kit that you'd now swap out from the get-go?
3. Reasonable wishlist items you'd spec on your kit build if you were starting fresh. This isn't a characteristic of the aircraft, rather a specific thing like "Dynon D10," or "Grove wheels." Similar to #2, I know, but a little different.


I've intentionally omitted any mention of a specific kit because I want to avoid that conversation. Not trying to decide on a kit here, only how to best execute the build. If you've built a kit, any kit, feel free to share your answer to the above questions.

Zane wrote:Many of you are flying kits you've assembled yourselves, and some of you are about to build your second plane of the same design (you know who you are.) This leads me to the obvious conclusion that, like everything in life, your first effort can always stand some improvement.

A few questions:

1. What techniques or tricks did you learn late in your build that you wished you'd known at the start?
2. What are the must-have components/parts/upgrades not included in your kit that you'd now swap out from the get-go?
3. Reasonable wishlist items you'd spec on your kit build if you were starting fresh.


I've intentionally omitted any mention of a specific kit because I want to avoid that conversation. If you've built a kit, any kit, feel free to share your answer to the above questions.

1- Join as many internet groups that involve the kit you are building and load your brain up with as many facts as you can.
2- 406 ELT, ADS-B equipment, mode S transponder
3- take off in 50 feet, cruise at 300mph, land in 50 feet, cost less then 20,000 to finish.... Aw, never mind, I just saw the word "Reasonable"..

Ben, I edited the above a little to be more clear about what info I am looking for.

Zane my biggest takeaway from my restoration project is this. If you have a wish list of things you want... big tires, electric trim, dynon glass, ect ect.......

Do it from the start! A lot of guys, myself included get so tired of building that they do stuff the easiest quickest way at the end and just get it together so they can go fly the dang thing. Trust me after 4 years of sitting in a fuse making airplane noises when it finally starts coming together it's really hard to be patient. I have done a lot of things to my plane that I originally wanted over the past two years but its soooooooo much harder to tear your plane apart to mod something once it's flying and squawk free. I still have a list of things I want to do that would have been much easier to do while it was in pieces scattered around the hangar. A few of them I'll probably never get to.

To decipher all that rambling build it the way you want it the first time around.

To answer 2 and 3 of your questions most kits come with crappy gear, tires, and brakes.

Upgraded axles, bigger tires, and double puck Matco brakes should be pretty high on your list if your building something that's not a pavement pounder. Next up on my list would be a Dynon MFD with the basics, and EIS monitoring system, and one of the new Garmin touch screen's in the panel.

Now get something ordered.... I hear you've talked to Steve recently...some interesting news coming from Nampa soon.

(1) If your kit requires clecos, order 4 times the amount you think you need and only order in quantities of 500. A 100 only sounds like a lot. Order four sets of cleco pliers because one is never enough and can never be found.

(2) if your kit requires rivets, see number 1.

(3) There is no such thing as enough clear flat space.

(4) Build and use jigs whenever you can.

(5) No matter how good you think you understand the instructions, when building a subassembly first go to the section that shows how the subassembly will be used and read it, read it, and read it.

(6) Never assume your building buddy(s) know what they are doing. Well intentioned and "right" don't mix.

(7) Always cut long.

(8) Don't be afraid of looking at the instructions and saying "That isn't right." After building a kit that has been on the market for twenty years I was surprised how many basic measurments didn't add up. And their instructions were considered good by the market standards.

(9) Inventory all parts before starting to build. Resolve discrepancies immediately.

(10) If buying a new engine, check when that warranty starts - at purchase or at first startup.

(11) Use self-etching primer.

(12) Buy panel layout software.

(13) You do not need backup steam gauges for your glass panel.

(14) Dynon Flight-DEK 180

(15) Bubble/Observer doors

Thats off the top of my head. Best of luck.

More power. With 100hp and down when you stick the second person in you always want more power.

More than one person has advised me that if you can buy it instead of weld it, do so. In my case this works for me, sooo....my wing steel parts ship next week. And no matter what you do download AND READ A/C 43-13-1B Acceptable Methods, Techniques and Practices-Aircraft Inspection and Repair. It's a free download, and a permanent reference to whatever you build. Oh, and use the max power your airframe is designed for. Just like a boat, you don't always need the power, buut it's there if you need it and you can pull it back when you don't.

In addition to getting higher hp mounted up (within company recommendations) don't buy your engine early and let it sit around several years. I bought a new engine and the company spotted me six months before starting the warranty but still the clock ticked away another full year's worth of warranty before I got it flying. Fortunately, I had no need to use the warranty.

Don't get the cheap tires that come with the kit. I stepped up to the 8.50's right away which was a good choice, except they were Airstreaks and had ten gravel throwing grooves/tire instead of only four like the Goodyears have that I replaced them with.

If you are thinking some day you will upgrade to constant speed prop make sure the engine you buy now can handle the change later. Most pilots will know this but airplane virgins do not. I can convert mine to CS now because I ordered the engine with the CS crank to start with.

Keep reengineering and design changes to zero, unless aeronautical engineering is your particular strength, for the rest of us, stay with company supported firewall forward packages. That way you will get a proven engine and mount and no weight and balance surprises later.


I didn't know where to stop with upgrades while building. I made improvements to fuel line supports and used external coils that keep flexible fuel lines from collapsing internally in bends and I made electrical improvements. Instead of individual wires with spade connectors hanging all over the firewall, I centralized two insulated stainless steel terminal strips on the firewall and whether you use solder or crimp ends, the nemesis is vibration so I shrink tubed all ends for vibration dampening. All standoffs for wires are also shrink tubed to reduce abrasion from engine vibration. The EAA building tips videos are a great help for techniques and pointers.

A few questions:

1. What techniques or tricks did you learn late in your build that you wished you'd known at the start?

A. Fabric Covering,
B. Riveting,
C. Painting,
D. Aeroelectric (Bob Nuckols) information.

2. What are the must-have components/parts/upgrades not included in your kit that you'd now swap out from the get-go?

A. Cleveland Brakes,
B. Horsepower,
C. Constant Speed Prop,
D. VG's

3. Reasonable wishlist items you'd spec on your kit build if you were starting fresh. This isn't a characteristic of the aircraft, rather a specific thing like "Dynon D10," or "Grove wheels." Similar to #2, I know, but a little different.

A. Keep it light - don't over do it with panel stuffers,
B. Keep it simple - no fuel injection or complicated electronic ignitions,
C. Don't deviate from the plans (this doesn't quite fit here, but I needed to put it somewhere).
D. Always buy for VALUE, not price. Light is better; I was willing to pay $100 or more per pound of differnce when comparing weights between products. A good example are Cleveland's vs Matco's - look at the weight difference. Clev's are normally much lighter, especially for double pucks.
E. Low compression engine for autofuel

Here is a couple things I learned--

-Lots of clecos.
-Lots of spring clamps.
-Lots of small parts trays, and keep them organized
-Wait til the last minute for avionics, they change as fast as computers.
-Build an airframe/engine/fuel system that can run ethanol, or alternative fuels.
-Have some money available during the build for deals on big ticket items (engine, prop, etc) The deals never show up just as you need them, so start looking early for the engine/prop. (I found a damaged RV8 when i was building mine, and saved a bunch of money)
-Keep the project as close to you as possible, 5-10 minutes a day is better than none.
-Have fun with the build, and involve as many friends/family as possible. They will help keep you motivated

I saw a small mod on a Tundra in Quebec that had a grab handle on the side of the fuselage ahead of the horizontal stab. What a help that would be to turn the plane by hand on the ground and be able to pick some weight off the tail in a soft or grass field. It would have to be mounted to an internal bracing and not just added later when the fuselage is already closed.

1. What techniques or tricks did you learn/perfect late in your build that you wished you'd known at the start?

A smart level for rigging.

Buy and build the kit components one at a time. If you buy a complete kit they always come out with upgrades to your Kit that you then have to pay extra to upgrade to.

2. What are the must-have components/parts/upgrades not included in your kit that you'd now swap out from the get-go?

More horse power. I intended from the beginning to upgrade to a 912 Rotax when I could afford it. Rotax price increases have since put the engine upgrade even further out of my reach.

Bush landing gear.

3. Reasonable wishlist items you'd spec on your kit build if you were starting fresh. This isn't a characteristic of the aircraft, rather a specific thing like "Dynon D10," or "Grove wheels." Similar to #2, I know, but a little different.

My motto is "If it didn't come with the kit don't put it on the plane". I like bare bones airplanes.

With respect I have to disagree with my friend Rod Hatcher's point #13 above, regarding glass panels and steam gauges, for a couple of reasons. The glass panel stuff is neat, and offers some interesting benefits. Nothing against them on a philosophiscal level. But...

1) You have a far better chance of repairing, replacing, or jury-rigging a steam gauge out in the back country than you do a glass panel. A few bucks spent at the local Wal-Mart or Auto Zone can likely get you a working oil pressure/temp gauge and the tubing to hook it up in a pinch.
2) Also, the glass panel toys are not a few hundred bucks here and there... they're a few thousand bucks here and there. Unless you have deep pockets putting that money into some other part of the airplane, or gas to fly it, may be a better option.

The steam gauges and $500.00 hand-held GPS in my old 172 can get me anywhere on this planet with the same accuracy as a 777 airliner.

EZFlap wrote:With respect I have to disagree with my friend Rod Hatcher's point #13 above, regarding glass panels and steam gauges, for a couple of reasons. The glass panel stuff is neat, and offers some interesting benefits. Nothing against them on a philosophiscal level. But...

1) You have a far better chance of repairing, replacing, or jury-rigging a steam gauge out in the back country than you do a glass panel. A few bucks spent at the local Wal-Mart or Auto Zone can likely get you a working oil pressure/temp gauge and the tubing to hook it up in a pinch.
2) Also, the glass panel toys are not a few hundred bucks here and there... they're a few thousand bucks here and there. Unless you have deep pockets putting that money into some other part of the airplane, or gas to fly it, may be a better option.

The steam gauges and $500.00 hand-held GPS in my old 172 can get me anywhere on this planet with the same accuracy as a 777 airliner.

Good points EZFlap. However, just speaking from my perspective (a VFR only airplane) the Dynon FlightDEC 180 cost me $3,700 from Aircraft Spruce. To match its functionality with gauges I found would cost considerably more.

Personally I have had no issues with the 180 and have had numerous ongoing issues with steam gauges. But that is just my experience, your mileage may vary. My real point is "Why pay twice?"

A couple advantages I found are:

(1) Much easier to install the 180 with a single wiring harness (which means much less troubleshooting)
(2) Takes up much less space (means more room for working behind panel)
(3) Better integration of infomation (my opinion)
(4) Can upgrade feature sets (big plus!)
(5) There is the visual appeal!



Of course the first time I am stuck in the outback with a bad panel I reserve the right to change my mind!

I would feel comfortable taking my panel out and throwing in the trash can and flying with NO gauges at least enough to get me somewhere for a fix. I think most homebuilders would agree. The appeal to me with glass is you can get attitude and nav information in one sweet compact unit. To have an electric ADI and turn coordinator would weigh more alone themselves than a Dynon unit that also gives you all your other instruments. Weight and wiring are two huge enemies in a light experimental. You can get 6+ steam gauges worth of info in a tiny box with glass.

I'm with EZ flap I can go anyplace with round gauges and my Garmin 196 but if I were building a brand plane there's no way I'd spend the time to cut round holes in my panel!

I cut the round holes.
But I have to work on computers all day long, the last thing I want to do when I fly is mess with another computer. I like the fact that the steam gauges just work, nothing to set up or tweak. But the beauty of an experimental is that you get to build your dream panel. It will be laid out exactly like you want it with the equipment that makes sense, in the locations that make sense. Have fun with it!

One guy told me after i was all done covering. Is to put all your covering stuff,before you start, fabric, paints, primer, ect in a container and pick it up and get a feel for what you are about to do. Weight wise. I always think about that. Never thought about it, just did it, now i wished i would have seen what it actually weighed. Sometimes wonder if things got on a little to thick?

tempdoug wrote:One guy told me after I was all done covering. Is to put all your covering stuff,before you start, fabric, paints, primer, ect in a container and pick it up and get a feel for what you are about to do. Weight wise. I always think about that. Never thought about it, just did it, now i wished i would have seen what it actually weighed. Sometimes wonder if things got on a little to thick?

Yeah, where is it written that all airplanes MUST be glossy and shiney? I see a lot of heavy paint jobs.....expensive also. You have to decide early on if you want a showplane or a workplane, whether you want to build or go fly! I like practical and light, and am always kind of surprised my plane looks as good as it does as appearance is way down the list. The single biggest thing in building nowadays is the internet, what a resource, that we didn't use to have! Building forums and email to the manufacturer sure help.

courierguy wrote:The single biggest thing in building nowadays is the internet, what a resource, that we didn't use to have! Building forums and email to the manufacturer sure help.

This is so true. Not just for advice while you build, but also to research the safety record, financial status, and support level of a prospective kit company.

tom

I will answer from an Rans S-7S perspective where appropriate:

1. What techniques or tricks did you learn/perfect late in your build that you wished you'd known at the start?
- Fabric covering and painting
- tricks for holding those damn adels together till u get the bolt through! (ziptie)
- Scour and post on the type-specific forums that will explain all the "gotchas" - like getting the 4th bolt in a Rans s-7 engine mount.
2. What are the must-have components/parts/upgrades not included in your kit that you'd now swap out from the get-go?
- For the Rans S-7s, all the Milloway components - glareshield, molded panel (larger - my design...copied from sportcub ), baggage tank (coupled with the new tanks in the kits, would give you almost 30gal of fuel), trimmed boot cowl (less weight), and many more coming - http://millowaycomposites.com/
- Expanded baggage bay (easy to do)
- Make sure the kit has reinforced gear sockets (all should now leaving the factory)
- Get better seat cushions, NOT the "wedge" option - its not great.
3. Reasonable wishlist items you'd spec on your kit build if you were starting fresh. This isn't a characteristic of the aircraft, rather a specific thing like "Dynon D10," or "Grove wheels." Similar to #2, I know, but a little different.
- C'mon - BOOSHWHEELS!! A must, just budget for them.
- VG's
- Dual Matco breaks
- Get a large NAV screen (696 or similar). It's what you stare at most of the time anyway. Attitude info is great, but I imagine most of the time, you'll look at Nav - give yourself real estate.
- Matco 11" dual fork tailwheel
- USB charging ports in the panel, and other places