Rotax just announced the 912IS, a fuel injected version of the 100hp:

http://flyrotax.com/media-center/newsro ... 912is.aspx

tom

Vans Aircraft came out and said they won't be offering it with their RV-12. I'm sure it won't be long before someone puts one on anyway. I'm guessing a $30k+ price tag.

...only negative is the new 912iS weighs more than the 912 even with the loss of two carbs. They are projecting a $4000 price increase over the standard 912S. Still a fair trade, even though very few people have any problem with the Bing 64 carbs.

One problem with 912iS is the same as with ULpower: if your alternator buys the farm, you have 1 hour to find a suitable landing spot, and thereafter you are stuck there. Pray that it's nothing worse than belt breaking. Although in theory it's not much different from a magneto dying or a cylinder cracking, the question is, how often it's going to happen, and if field repair is possible. UL draws pretty little, so it may be possible to have someone fly in a charged battery, jerry-rig it to power, and thus evacuate the airplane to an airfield with a mechanic. I am not going to live in fear of any specific failure, but I'll be watching how 912iS behaves out there.

Apparently it's got dual alternators too.

Just wanted to throw this one out here. HKS-T for Turbo. An 80 hp air cooled turbo fuel injected two cylinder four stroke engine at 127 lbs. The Rotax 912 80 hp with radiator and wet all up is 140-ish. This is not a 100 hp experimental but since it has the turbo it will perform with a naturally aspirated 100 hp at higher altitudes and should kick the butt of the 80 hp Rotax.

Green Sky Adventures is a dealer but no free lunch here either.
http://www.greenskyadventures.com/Engin ... S/home.htm

TBO is expected to increase to HKS's standard 1000 hrs as more fleet hours are behind them. Introductory TBO is 500 as was with their 60 hp which is now 1000.

I haven't visited their site in a while, but it looks like Hirth has a new, fuel injected 110hp model 3003. It offers more than 30hp more than the HKS turbo model and weighs the same fully installed, and offers 30hp more than the Rotax 912 and weighs less fully installed and is cheaper than both HKS and Rotax 912.

Hirth brags a lot about Nikasil cylinders. I think the Chevy Vega had something like that, for those of you old enough to remember that travesty. Aluminum pistons with steel rings rubbing up and down inside aluminum cylinders really really fast. I dunno.

As there is so much hype in the experimental aircraft engine industry it has become almost impossible to make an informed decision. The experimental community doesn't help either because we spew a lot of opinion masquerading as engineering data. Much of the information on which to base a decision is hyperbole or worse. It's discouraging; not just for the consumer but very much for the manufacturers as well.

Rotax has managed to meet US certification standards with some of their 912 engines. I don't know of any other company that has succeeded in reaching that goal. I guess the Jabiru has some sort of certification in OZ. You sure couldn't tell from all the hysteria here in the States.

What this world needs is a good aircraft engine for not much money. Where have we heard that before.

EB in limbo...

Sort of obvious but what about the standard o-200?...and a nice rebuilt o-200 with a light weight starter and alt for half this price.


Teledyne Continental Officially Announces O-200 "Lightweight"
Submitted by Jason on Wed, 07/08/2009 - 06:20
Teledyne Continental just sent us a press release about their newest engine, the O-200 Lightweight. Apparently different than that O-200D announced for the C-162 Skycatcher, this motor is also intended for the light sport aircraft market.

At 199 pounds and $21,499, this engine is still heavier and more expensive than most of its competition. However, it has a generous 2000 hour time between overhaul (TBO) that many engines in its class lack. If you divide its cost over the full TBO, the prices even out a bit. It also has a proven pedigree, a strong company for parts and support, and a world full of mechanics familiar with it. It will also fit in any cowling that has another version of the O-200 right now.

To help boost interest in switching to this engine, TCM says they will accept any 85-115 hp aviation engine core (in reasonable condition) as part of a trade in. That could mean a great opportunity for everyone from LSA owners to flight schools with run-out C-150 engines. Instead of just getting an overhaul, why not get a brand new motor that weighs less? I'm excited to see another engine option for the 100 hp/LSA market. I'm looking forward to getting some field reports on how it does. If you hear any, please let us know!

For more information, check out the ad for this motor on the TCM website and compare this engine with others in our engine comparison table.

Emory Bored wrote:Hirth brags a lot about Nikasil cylinders. I think the Chevy Vega had something like that, for those of you old enough to remember that travesty. Aluminum pistons with steel rings rubbing up and down inside aluminum cylinders really really fast. I dunno.

EB in limbo...

Nigasil cylinders are on every modern motorcycle engine curently produced and have been for quite a while. I commonly see Ducati engines with 75K that have ran at 5000+ rpm at highway speeds and 9500 when playing that leak down at 4% cold.
Don't pick on one little modern component and dissreguard an entire engine because of it, you will miss out. When bikes went to injection a lot of riders were affraid of it because it couldn't be fixed on the side of the road. Well, I wouldn't recommend taking your carbs apart on the side of the road either and in the 100,000 or so miles I have put on injected bikes, battery failure has been the only injection failure that has ever stopped me.

DavidB. wrote:

Emory Bored wrote:Hirth brags a lot about Nikasil cylinders. I think the Chevy Vega had something like that, for those of you old enough to remember that travesty. Aluminum pistons with steel rings rubbing up and down inside aluminum cylinders really really fast. I dunno.

EB in limbo...

Nigasil cylinders are on every modern motorcycle engine curently produced and have been for quite a while. I commonly see Ducati engines with 75K that have ran at 5000+ rpm at highway speeds and 9500 when playing that leak down at 4% cold.
Don't pick on one little modern component and dissreguard an entire engine because of it, you will miss out. When bikes went to injection a lot of riders were affraid of it because it couldn't be fixed on the side of the road. Well, I wouldn't recommend taking your carbs apart on the side of the road either and in the 100,000 or so miles I have put on injected bikes, battery failure has been the only injection failure that has ever stopped me.

That's why I said I dunno. Because I dunno. The Chevy Vega was 40+ years ago. The Ducati that you mention is a 4 stroke as is every other modern motorcycle engine. They derive their lubrication from a pressurized system and not from a 40:1 fuel mix. I wonder if that makes any difference? I'm serious, I dunno.

Well that is not quite true. KTM still has a full line of 2 stokes as do several others. A lot of 2 stroke trials bikes out there too. Additionally, most snowmobiles are still 2 strokes. Hard to find a 4 stroke scooter. 2 stroke marine engines are not completely dead yet either. Many modern 2 stroke engines use coated cylinders. 2 stroke engines are alive and well all over the world and in great demand. For the same reason as always. Superior power to weight and ease of maintenance. They would still be popular here if not for a certain west coast state.
Got a Porsche 911? You got Nikasil cylinders. Several European cars use it today. Jags, BMW, Porsche.
That being said, I'm still glad I have a 912 on my Rans.

I think one should not get too comfortable about any engine that your life depends on, 4 or 2 cycle, certified or not. This kind of thinking may take a little joy out of flying, but think of how much less joyful it would be if one doesn't fly as if his engine could quit at any moment, and then it actually does quit and you don't have a decent place to land?

I know of a missionary aircraft (a Cessna 182) on the island I live on that very recently had a flame-out (engine out) less than 20 hours after annual. The landing wasn't without serious damage. The prop got busted, a hardened berm at the edge of the dried out rice paddy took out the little wheel thingy up front (it got sheared off) and there was other significant, expensive damage to the aircraft. It won't be flying any time soon, if ever.

I've heard of more than a few certified Rotax 912's failing unexpectedly, also Jabirus, Lycoming and other popular 4 cycle engines, all without Nikasil coatings. And I've heard of LSA type planes going on 1500 mile trips where the only aircraft that made it without a single mechanical issue was the guy with the 2 stroke 582.

If Porche, Jags, BMWs and other high end, high rpm vehicle engines are using Nikasil coatings, maybe there's something to it that Rotax, Jabiru and Lycoming haven't caught on to yet?

The Rotax 912/912S continues to rack up the fleet hours, there is nothing even close to it's DEMONSTRATED reliability. All else is smoke and mirrors until another engine manufacturer has a fraction of the fleet hours they have. Hoped for performance claims are just that until millions of fleet hours are there. A 200 lb. or more Continental, besides being heavy (in a empty weight aircraft of 700+ lbs, another 60 lbs is pretty significant, especially clear out on the nose), is also wider then a lot of LSA's want to pack around, the specific fuel consumption isn't as good, and they are not bulletproof either, I can't recall the exact problem but they have been having some issues with the cylinders, I think it was.

I wish like hell the Rotax wasn't working out so well, just like I wish Bushwheels wern't worth the money, the "problem" is they are, and the others are all playing catchup. It is always good to see what else is out there, and working out well, but RIGHT NOW, the Rotax is king of the hill. Damn it

I think nikasil coatings are a good thing. If the coating is done properly then it can significantly prolong the life of the engine. Most snowmobile engines use nik coated cylinders and there are plenty of sleds out there with 12k miles on the original engine. My issue with nikasil is that when it is time for a re-coating it cost ~$250 per cylinder and if the coating is not done properly severe damage often occurs. Thanks to the internet you learn pretty quick which shops do a poor job applying the nikasil. If Hirth doesn't have a reputation for bad nikasil then it probably isn't an issue.

I personally would have no worries about flying behind a engine that had nikasil coated cylinders. Even though I love 2-stroke engines I don't know that I'll ever own a plane that is powered by one.

Certified aircraft engines can use plated cylinders.

Here is one http://www.eci.aero/pages/products_ni+c.aspx

I personally trust a good Nickle bassed plating method over nitriding, cast iron, or steel. The rings have to be cast iron and assembled nearly dry, and the break in should be done following the instructions, but if motorcycle quality components can run into the 100's of thousands in more demanding conditions, then aircraft quality Rotax components can go longer.

As far as two strokes. The biggest reason two strokes fail in owner errors in tuning and maintenance. I have seen two stroke LSA's for sale cheap, and it is tempting. But even though I know how to make one last, I still am not sure I want one keeping me up in the air. Mabey if it was a water only LSA, I could fly a long time around here and never be out of gliding distance to water.

D.

I just saw an annoucement on the Kitfox site today that the 912IS will NOT work with analog gauges. Also no current EFIS systems on the market that are compatible either. The only thing that will work is the Rotax engine monitor system that comes with the low low price of $3900. Throw in your prop, engine mount, cooling system, ect ect and this little gym is fast approaching $35,000 FWF. Reliable or not that's pretty outragous for 100HP engine no matter how you look at it IMO. I could buy 3 of my airplanes for that price and fly for the rest of my days. The only positive thing I see out of this engine is that it will lower the prices on the older models. I have a spare fuse for my airplane that I'd love to stretch and put the 80hp 912 on it someday. I've seen that engine go for $8500 from someone who upgraded to the 100HP model when it came out.

The DUKE engine looks very interesting. 180 hp at 101 lbs? Even the 100 hp at 101 lbs is impressive, and no reduction gear needed. I hope something comes of this.

http://www.dukeengines.com/

That is very cool! It may be the new radial, I hope it finds its way to the market.

AvidFlyer wrote:...... Throw in your prop, engine mount, cooling system, ect ect and this little gym is fast approaching $35,000 FWF. Reliable or not that's pretty outragous for 100HP engine no matter how you look at it IMO. ...

Sure makes a used O-200 sound pretty good, even if you're not strictly old school.