I am starting to look for a reasonably priced, reliable, safe time building tail wheel.

Been looking at 140's but then found this:

'190HP Lyc Stinson 108-1,TT 2472,SMOH375, SPOH 185, 700-6 tires, exterior refinished 2010, leather interior, Cleveland brakes, new tail wheel tire, full panel, SS hardware, relicensed Nov.3,2010, Hartzell controlable prop, Icon 720 channel radio, Sigtronics SPA-400 (4 place), Astro Tech Quartz Chronomerter, 6 cylinder EGT guage, strobe, Narco AT-50 Transponder & encoder, Apollo 11 Morrow Radio'
http://www.trade-a-plane.com/detail/Sin ... 15881.html

I have been reading about the 108-2 / 108-3, the concerns over franklin/etc. I am not sure what the history is that required ' relicensed Nov 2010' -- i have asked.

I am really only looking for a plane for 6 months - 1 year : to build tail wheel time (100+ hrs) while I flight instruct also and move on to being paid to fly. If I could find a temp lease back/ownership in the SoCal area that would be an option but so far have not.

Thanks for all the wisdom in advanced

travis

A Lycoming 190 hp engine? Find out what model engine that is. Not sure that Lycoming ever built a 190 hp engine.

MTV

O-435 I believe http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lycoming_O-435

Bad idea, stay away. Marginal performance gain and an obnoxious prop AD.

If you want a basic time builder scoop one up with the F165 for <$20k and go to town.

Yah, the O-435 and the prop aren't very desireable. You're on the right track with a Stinson, but just not that combination in my opinion.
John

29SS - If you haven't found this link already you'll appreciate it, lots of discussion about the various powerplant options for the Stinson (to include the O-435). And if you go out to the home page there is lots of other educational content for the potential Stinson owner...

http://hangar9aeroworks.com/StinsonEngi ... gines.html

Thanks for the info all!

Here's a bit more.

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=1654&p=18950&hilit=LYCOMING+HELICOPTER+STINSON#p18950

Gump

I can't recall where I heard it, but I have heard that the O-435 is essentially a six cylinder O-290. The displacement is right (72.5 cubic inches per cylinder) and the power is close ( 125 HP/4 cylinders * 6 cylinders = 187.5 HP).

-Nate

Both Lyc & Cont just add cylinders for bigger displacement: O-200 plus 2 = O-300, O-290 plus 2 = O-435, O-360 plus 2 = 540.
No offense if you've got one, but from what I've heard the O-435 Lyc is a bit of a boat anchor. Consider that you're getting only 190 horsepower from 435 cubic inches, whereas the Cont O-470 is 225 or 230 hp. The main attraction for an O-435 Stinson 108 conversion is that the firewall forward from a Stinson L-5 Sentinel is a bolt on mod.

According to wikipedia the O-470 started out at 165 HP from 471 cid. And the O-435 was available in models with output up to 260 HP. The weights are similar but there are so many variables that it's hard to say exactly how they compare.

Comparing the displacement and power (435 cid, 190 HP vs. 471 cid, 225 HP) they are not too far off.
O-435 .437 HP per cubic inch
O-470 .478 HP per cubic inch
Basically the O-435 is off by 36 cubic inches and 35 HP.

But an orphan engine is an orphan engine. Even if it's a nice running engine, if parts, support and options are hard to come the economics start to get pretty slim.
-Nate

Yep, I wasn't thinking about that series of engines. All the 435s I've been around were the geared versions, rated at 250 or 260. Those engines seem to work fine in the Widgeon, Helio, etc., but I understand they are VERY expensive to overhaul. Last time I was at the Lycoming factory, they were still overhauling them, but they commented that you'd pay a price.

I've never seen a 190 hp version of that engine, though.

MTV

I have one, I fly one, I like it. The engine seems like a better option than the Franklin, not as good as the Cont. Overhaul costs for the 0-435 are no worse than most other engines, it just takes some time to look for parts. Generally the bottom end is very strong, the problems lie in the cylinders. They seem to have a never ending run of cracks in the heads. They are the same jugs as the 0-290 D version.

I am told that you can bolt on the jugs with angled valves, get more power (235) and get away from the cracking but it is not quite legal. The prop is a BIG expense unless it has been changed to the upgrade version, the old one has a recurring AD that will get you in the end.

The plane has almost no ADs and no problems, flies great has lots of room and will haul like a truck. Not super fast but lots better than an older 172 or 170 or most any others of it's vintage.

The 0-435 is a bit of a gas hog, figure on 14GPM for safety and expect no better than 9.

Have fun.

I have one ride in an O-435 powered Stinson 108, Louder than hell, but it took off and got right with the program, climbed right out. But I've heard the same bad rap on the 435's fuel flow and overhaul cost from a few people.

If it's really really cheap, buy it, fly it for a while using the money you saved on the purchase to pay for the horrifying fuel flow, and start looking (and saving up)for to O-360 Lycoming, the O-540 Lycoming, or the 220HP Franklin upgrade for it.

A 540 powered Stinson looks like it would be a fantastic load hauling back country airplane with some real pulling power.

EZFlap wrote:I have one ride in an O-435 powered Stinson 108, Louder than hell, but it took off and got right with the program, climbed right out. But I've heard the same bad rap on the 435's fuel flow and overhaul cost from a few people.

If it's really really cheap, buy it, fly it for a while using the money you saved on the purchase to pay for the horrifying fuel flow, and start looking (and saving up)for to O-360 Lycoming, the O-540 Lycoming, or the 220HP Franklin upgrade for it.

A 540 powered Stinson looks like it would be a fantastic load hauling back country airplane with some real pulling power.

This was (is) Bruce Bartons "Glass pack Bomber" . Over lake Meade low level looking for Bob's sailboat ---
Low level of course .Bruce has a trailer full of Franklin and Lyc. parts including several 0-435's. I've went with Bruce to pick up 4 Franklin's 165's and 3 0-435's. 0-435 with prop and mount ---running for under 2 grand. Heat(CHT) and baffles is a problem in Stinson or Ballanca airplanes.Fuel use is higher -but it burns "autofuel" 100% . 1946 Balllanca -17-1 still cruises at 160 mph with 0-435. 108-2 --0435 cruises at 12 gph and about 120 mph all day long on "autofuel" from joe's Texaco.

Speaking of Stinsons....is there an engine replacement STC for the Bellanca 14-19 with the O435?

porterjet wrote:Speaking of Stinsons....is there an engine replacement STC for the Bellanca 14-19 with the O435?

YES STC

I have owned several Stinsons with the 190 hp Lycoming O 435. I certinally like the Stinsons but do NOT like the O 435. It is a dog for it size, weight and fuel consumption. They also slobber oil unless equippped with the four ring pistons.

Parts are interchangable with the O 290 but not legally.

Lycoming does not support this engine in any way and the only parts for it are surplus WWII parts.

The Hartzel prop is a big problem with a very expensive AD.

I much prefer the Franklin 165 horse or if you are lucky enough to find a legal one, the 180 hp or even 220 hp Franklin. Make sure it is legal!

There are also a few Continental O 470 powered Stinsons around and they are great but you can almost buy a Cessna 180 for the price.

Plus there are a few Continental IO 360 (210 hp) Stinsons around and a few Lycoming O 360 (180 or 200 hp) Stinsons around.


The Stinson is a great airplane and really likes a bit more power.