Looking for some practical advice on performance mods for an 'ol 172. Its current setup: o-300d(400 hrs), Horton STOL, 7653 prop, Cleveland wheels and brakes. Home field is 5000, McCall, ID. I just finished my PPL. I have no expectations of becoming a bush pilot overnight or with this plane. I'd like to start...slowly learning the backcountry. I'd also like to have some realistic expectations for my airplane. Will a climb prop buy me much? Can I even entertain the idea of flying her into some of the local backcountry strips(after thorough instruction)? Any advice would be appreciated!

If most of your trips are going to be a couple hours or less I would consider repitching your existing prop to 76x51 if it meets specs to allow you to do so. Get you some extra horses on takeoff and climb, at the expense of a few knots in cruise.

One of my instructors flies for Arnolds in Cascade and he own a '56 172 that I've gotten a few hours in. About the only "mods" that he has on his are the droop wingtips, nothing other than that that I know of, I'm not sure what his prop is pitched for. He's had it to most of the backcountry strips in Idaho. I could probably get you in touch with him if you wanted, he's a great instructor and knows what he's doing.

There are plenty of Idaho backcountry strips well within the capabilities of your airplane.

I fly a '59 172 and I curse its anemic O-300A everywhere except at the fuel pump. There are many easy strips that it can handle with a huge safety margin (Moose Creek, Johnson Creek, Chamberlain Basin, Indian Creek, etc.) As the strips get shorter and/or higher, the margin decreases until you eventually hit the magic threshold (which will vary day to day and hour to hour based on the conditions) where the plane won't make it.

So, learn the rules, then start with the easy ones, work your way up slowly, and know your limits so you will always ensure you have a safety margin.

The best mod you can do is to remove stuff. Get that weight down.

Easier said than done.

-If you have some older avionics that you don't use, rip em out.
-Travel light, travel solo.
-Fly early when it's colder.
-In my 170 I would only take on about 24 gallons max if I had a passenger and I knew I need to operate short. That means being very mindful of fuel usage and fueling more often. Some will argue that, but 80 lbs of fuel can make a big difference.
-Consider repitching to a 7651. You'll travel slower, but I've had friends say it does increase takeoff performance a fair amount.

Thinking each and every time about whether your available power is enough to do the job will turn you into a much better pilot.

Number one modification for your situation, absolute highest return for the dollar, absolute best STOL improvement and safety upgrade... is to remove the rear seat.

At 5000 feet you have a two seat airplane anyway, no matter how you slice it. It removes a significant amount of weight (something like 25 pounds), and also takes one of the biggest mistakes you could make out of the equation before you can make the mistake.

Another good thing is to have your carburetor serviced and properly adjusted/set up. Wasting fuel or power in your situation is dangerous as well as needless. Most carburetors go way too long without a rebuild or check.

The K&N type air filters will give you back a little bit of lost power which may be worth the money at that altitude.

Take a GOOD look inside your exhaust system, all the way through, for any blockages, broken muffler bails, rusty broken pieces etc. A tired or broken exhaust can rob a lot of power and cause a power loss when it lets go all the way.

As far as performance improvement, the VG's are probably the biggest bang for the buck, they weigh very little, cost is very reasonable for a certified upgrade, and most users say they work pretty good.

Improving your own performance as the pilot will be a bigger improvement than anything mechanical you can do to the airplane of course, which you will (correctly) hear about a thousand times.

There's also another little upgrade that will likely be worthwhile for your airplane. Not appropriate to discuss it in detail in this thread (a couple of 'em are throwing a rope over a tree branch already), but PM me for info.

EZFlap wrote:There's also another little upgrade that will likely be worthwhile for your airplane. Not appropriate to discuss it in detail in this thread (a couple of 'em are throwing a rope over a tree branch already), but PM me for info.

Watch out, he's gonna try to sell you a Jenny Craig subscription.

Just keep it as light as you can.

Also protect your nose gear.

With practice it will get you into and out of alot of places.

In order to keep the nose gear off the ground and out of trouble I suggest hauling a 6 burner Coleman camp stove and a full 100 gallon cooler as far aft as you can wherever you go.

OK. Sounds like some solid advice. Basically, climb prop(probably to a 51) and remove rear seats. I'm guessin the 100 gallon cooler was referenced to remind me of keepin careful about CG. Some stuff I left out. It has drooped wingtips, flap gap seals and aileron seals, also... wheel pants. I know the wheel pants gotta go. Any advice on tires? or just keep em small and full of helium. I would like the name of the instructor in Cascade, that would be great! Thanks

Actually the cooler was a reference to a funny video floating around poking fun at flatlanders buying high HP airplanes and thinking that made them experts. My parents had a '56 172 when I was a bit younger, the droop tips really helped the slow speed performance of the wing. Taking the rear seat out keeps you from being tempted to take 3 friends instead of 1. Don't forget to get that approved by your mechanic though. There are several threads here about flap gap seals!
The early 172's are a great airplane, enjoy it.

Hey Roni,

Nice to see another 172 owner!

I'm going to go against the crowd as far as rushing into re-pitching the prop. Haven't done it on the 172. Did have it done on the 150 I owned and didn't see much in the way of performance and wasn't worth the cost in speed... but, that's a 150 and I may not be good enough to really notice the difference anyway.

Keeping weight down is important. My 172 docs say the rear seat is 30lbs. Haven't taken it out yet but should. So far been pretty happy with just me but I also play around near sea level most of the time.

Right now I'm very close to upgrading the nose gear and mains. I know I'll be a lot less worried about burying that tiny go-cart wheel on the front. There's a few river bars and farm or two I'd like to land on and this will open them up.

Craig

EZFlap wrote:Number one modification for your situation, absolute highest return for the dollar, absolute best STOL improvement and safety upgrade... is to remove the rear seat.

At 5000 feet you have a two seat airplane anyway, no matter how you slice it. It removes a significant amount of weight (something like 25 pounds),

Excellent suggestion, and I should have mentioned it. My 170 rear seat weighed 32 lbs. I took it out very early on and it didn't go back in until the day I sold it.

I would ditch the flap gap seals. The stock flaps are great on your plane, and while you may gain a knot with the gap seals, they spoil the flow over the flap at high angles of attack, robbing you of valuable lift at low speeds.

I agree with Scolopax about ditching the flap gap seals, but for a different reason.
I took mine off in order to get back my old rate of decent.
If you are planning on flying mostly around McCall then you do not need any small amount of speed, but you do need all the rate of decent control options you can come up with.
Problem though is that if you have the Horton brand of flap gap seals they are RIVETED on.

The best money you can spend is on gas and fly the damned thing.
I keep seeing where someone buys a plane and the first thing they think they need is to spend money on all the external options when what they really need is experience. Especially time in the environment and on short final. Just fly the damned thing.

I once saw a home movie of a lady McCalll pilot, (lynn Clark), and two others in a stock straight tail 172 going into and out of Soldier Bar in the early 80s. Back when there was still several aluminum and rag covered scraps still lying about. There is also a picture - if you look around hard enough - in that old Pioneer building there in McCall - of another lady pilot that put a straight tail 172 into Mile High. Practice - Practice - Practice.
The flatter prop is probably reasonable.

If I taken the roughly $100,000 I put into every conceivable STC on my old piece of shit 170-B and just simply flew it, I might be a fairly good pilot these days, instead I have a beautiful airplane, but am still a piece of shit pilot.

Zane wrote:

EZFlap wrote:Number one modification for your situation, absolute highest return for the dollar, absolute best STOL improvement and safety upgrade... is to remove the rear seat.

At 5000 feet you have a two seat airplane anyway, no matter how you slice it. It removes a significant amount of weight (something like 25 pounds),

Excellent suggestion, and I should have mentioned it. My 170 rear seat weighed 32 lbs. I took it out very early on and it didn't go back in until the day I sold it.

And it's still out!

My first plane was a 60 172B. The best thing I did to it was put on Horner wingtips. When your flying, the high pressure air on the bottom of the wing swirls up over the top and actually cancels the lift on the last few inches of the wing. The Horner tips keep the air separated until it's behind the wing and seemed to give you a little more lift. They claim it makes you faster too but I never did the before and after checks so I don't know. I just needed wingtips and thought I'd try them out. Lots of new planes and crop dusters are going to them too.

robw56 wrote:

Zane wrote: My 170 rear seat weighed 32 lbs. I took it out very early on and it didn't go back in until the day I sold it.

And it's still out!

Haha I figured. It's like a pickup truck without it.

wannabe and others are so right on...i flew my first 182 with the 470 almost everywhere...

a 172 is a great place to start for sure. some of the best instructors on the planet live in and around mccall...hire em up and go for it, the stuff u will learn in a short amount of time will be more beneficial both in safety and knowledge than u think.....