http://www.scribd.com/doc/4039096/LIDGX ... ACANA-0808

If you are outbound in the hold over GLL (link above), and atc gives you " cleared for the full procedure vor approach to Greeley", what would you do? My instinct just tells me to turn in bound on the inbound course for the approach and shoot it. But if atc is giving you full procedure is there a procedure turn that needs to be done, if so, how? Had this on my check ride and apparently he was not looking for me to just turn in bound on the hold and descend. still passed but wasn't what he was looking for. Ideas?



2. If you are cruising vfr at 8000 and you get stuck above the clouds, reports below you say a 3000 foot ceiling but your vfr and stuck on top, how would you get an ifr clearance to descend below for a visual approach? Would you just ask atc for a pop up ifr, direct xyz airport, with descent to 2000? This is assuming that you have flat terrean and aren't in the mountains and dealing with high mea.

I'm not a "pro" but I'll give my two cents. This is a unique one. The "full procedure" starts at the IAF, and requires you to go outbound on the radial and make a procedure turn. They will probably have you holding above 7000, You have all ready crossed GILL in your hold, so If you are outbound on the hold at GIL, I would intercept the 205 radial outbound, while descending to 7000, do the procedure turn and reintercept the 205 and descend to 6300, remember all this has to be done within 10 mile of GILL.

#2. Every area has a different minimum vectoring altitude, or an altitude at which radar coverage becomes sketchy. In this situation, I would have an approach plate ready, be prepared to ask "i'd like to go to puppy and fly the GPS 10 to Funtown", but first ask ATC "Funtown is calling 3000' can you give me vectors to a visual" if they say no, you are ready to ask for an approach.

1) You are expected to continue towards the runway when passing the FAF from a holding pattern unless you are not lined up and at the proper altitude. In that case you need to advise them that you are doing another turn. ATC would not clear you to leave the holding pattern and do a procedure turn. The examiner wanted to see a procedure turn but he used clumsy language.

2) Just ask for the pop-up. They'll fill in all the blanks. When you break out you can cancel. More likely they'll tell you to expect a visual approach. You want to have a clearance all the way to your destination in case you don't break out and/or go lost comm.

3) Congratulations on the new rating. It's the toughest one.

steve

I agree with you. There are not a whole lot other options. Of course turning inbound and shooting the approach if your holding at 7000 seems like the most likely scenario, but as long as your o the protected side and meeting up with the outbound seems the only other logical solution.

Assuming that you are established in the published hold at 7000 ft you are already in a position to accomplish the course reversal. Since the course reversal is shown as a standard procedure turn the method of course reversal is up to you (as long as you comply with side and distance requirements). You could continue outbound in the hold, turn right and intercept the radial inbound turn, or, turn right, intercept the 025 radial and from there; a) fly the published headings of the procedure turn, or; b) turn left 80 degrees then reverse right to re-intercept the radial inbound; or c) perform a teardrop reversal. If a course reversal other than a standard procedure turn had been published you would be required to fly the reversal as published. If you are holding above 7000 you might need to loose altitude either in the holding pattern or by flying a course reversal procedure. Given the information which you presented I would fly the holding pattern at 7000 until established on the 025 radial inbound and fly the rest of the procedure as published. The examiner may have wanted to see you fly a procedure turn, but I can't see a requirement to fly one from that position.

As to the second question, I have simply called the controlling ATC facility and asked for an IFR clearance to the destination airport. Occasionally I have launched for an airport which is forecasted to be good VFR at the ETA and due to un-forecasted wx the airport was IFR. Usually the approach controller will state something like, "GXY currently 700 OVC 1 mile, state your intentions.". My response would be, "Requesting IFR clearance, present position for the VOR approach." from there most will give an IFR clearance with routing or radar vectors for the approach. Not a big deal.

It's up to you whether you want do your course reversal via the holding pattern or a procedure turn. Since you're on the protected side I'd extend the outbound leg of the holding pattern enough to give yourself more time to get down. You have the full 10 miles to get turned around. If you weren't on the protected side then standard holding pattern timing applies. Bottom line is either way of doing it is legal and it falls under the "technique" label. steve

The above are all good answers. There is nothing wrong with asking the examiner to clarify what he means. "Do you want me to finish this holding pattern or start from here?". A course reversal, whether it is in the holding pattern or turning right to intercept the 025 outbound are both just fine as long as you stay within the altitude/distance limits. Don't go below 7000 until established on the radial inbound to the VOR.

A pop up clearance is just as easy as the other guys have said. Just give ATC some time to get it into the computer. Odds are that if the weather has surprised everybody then they are going to be busy and may not get to you right away.

Jumpy wrote:3) Congratulations on the new rating. It's the toughest one.

steve

You thing IFR is tougher than comm of CFI? Just curious

To me the instrument rating is the biggest jump. Maybe because it's the least fun. The commercial is the easiest and the CFI is no big deal. A friend recently failed the CFI written because the test has been updated with new questions. I guess now you have to read the books. steve

Yup, I'm starting on the cfi stuff now. Heard the test got a bit harder but gleim is supposedly updating all their software for the new test questions.