Hoping to hear from any Montana pilots....

So I'm 7 days late paying my $75 MT aircraft registration and got whacked with a $375 late fee. Yes that's a 500% late fee for 7 days late. Anyone able to fight this? Is there a group trying to fix this injustice?

I called the state and they said the fee will not be waived.

Good old greed

It says it very clearly right on the invoice they send out, that you got in December, when the due date is and the penalty. The fee and penalty are written in the statute and has been there for decades. Aeronautics cannot waive it.

Bonanza Man wrote:It says it very clearly right on the invoice they send out, that you got in December, when the due date is and the penalty. The fee and penalty are written in the statute and has been there for decades. Aeronautics cannot waive it.

Yes I know, long story, I didn't get the invoice but it was my fault. That doesn't make it right to charge 500% penalty. If I was late paying Montana state income tax it's 0.5% per day capped at 12%.

Ace007 wrote:

Bonanza Man wrote:It says it very clearly right on the invoice they send out, that you got in December, when the due date is and the penalty. The fee and penalty are written in the statute and has been there for decades. Aeronautics cannot waive it.

Yes I know, long story, I didn't get the invoice but it was my fault. That doesn't make it right to charge 500% penalty. If I was late paying Montana state income tax it's 0.5% per day capped at 12%.

While I agree that a 500% penalty is steep, given how reasonable MT registration fees are to begin with, it's hard to be too indignant. Aircraft registration fees are not income tax...if you own an airplane, pay the registration fee on time or pay the fine. If you want to raise a stink, I'd recommend contacting your representative. A civil uprising seems unlikely...

And on closer inspection, you list your location as Longmont...can't find a Longmont MT, just a Longmont CO. If you're one of the MANY people who register their airplanes in MT under a $40 LLC but live in another state, it's REALLY hard to have any indignation. I'm not saying it's wrong...just that even with a 500% penalty I bet you're still saving money, if that's indeed the case.

Hammer wrote:While I agree that a 500% penalty is steep, given how reasonable MT registration fees are to begin with, it's hard to be too indignant. Aircraft registration fees are not income tax...if you own an airplane, pay the registration fee on time or pay the fine. If you want to raise a stink, I'd recommend contacting your representative. A civil uprising seems unlikely...

And on closer inspection, you list your location as Longmont...can't find a Longmont MT, just a Longmont CO. If you're one of the MANY people who register their airplanes in MT under a $40 LLC but live in another state, it's REALLY hard to have any indignation. I'm not saying it's wrong...just that even with a 500% penalty I bet you're still saving money, if that's indeed the case.

Why don't you go back and read my original post. I was asking for responses from Montana pilots on an issue. I didn't ask for your pontification and uneducated opinion on the subject. And I certainly didn't ask for you to go snooping through my profile, stalking me on the interwebs, and make some wild arse assumption without knowing anything about me or my situation. How do you know I just didn't update my location after moving? Or that I keep the plane in MT or split my time in different locations? You know it all and are always right....

Ace007 wrote:

Hammer wrote:While I agree that a 500% penalty is steep, given how reasonable MT registration fees are to begin with, it's hard to be too indignant. Aircraft registration fees are not income tax...if you own an airplane, pay the registration fee on time or pay the fine. If you want to raise a stink, I'd recommend contacting your representative. A civil uprising seems unlikely...

And on closer inspection, you list your location as Longmont...can't find a Longmont MT, just a Longmont CO. If you're one of the MANY people who register their airplanes in MT under a $40 LLC but live in another state, it's REALLY hard to have any indignation. I'm not saying it's wrong...just that even with a 500% penalty I bet you're still saving money, if that's indeed the case.

Why don't you go back and read my original post. I was asking for responses from Montana pilots on an issue. I didn't ask for your pontification and uneducated opinion on the subject. And I certainly didn't ask for you to go snooping through my profile, stalking me on the interwebs, and make some wild arse assumption without knowing anything about me or my situation. How do you know I just didn't update my location after moving? Or that I keep the plane in MT or split my time in different locations? You know it all and are always right....

You asked, and you received. Nobody's stalking you...your profile states you'e from Longmont. I have several friends who live out of state but register their airplanes here, and I don't judge them for it. But they aren't complaining about MT registration regulations, either... Heaven forfend that I should match wits with a secret agent...

We live in a democracy that works pretty well for all of us. As aviators, we represent a very small portion of "the people." If aviators don't get along, our situation could be more expensive for our small number.

For once California is not the worst on something!

Sorry about the monetary ding. What a bummer.

Yeah...sucks.. to bad a person can’t vent a little and receive a little symbolic sympathy without someone sharing their misery...and this is a good bad example of what not to do... a reminder for others....is the registration fee an annual thing?


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Actually, Montana’s fee structure on “luxury items” is quite minimal. That’s one reason there are a lot of airplanes registered in this state, which never seem to spend any time here.

There are also 50 Porsche 918s registered in MT, but I seriously doubt any actually drive the roads of Montana.

As Bonanzaman noted, the fees are pretty clear, and very economical, assuming you pay them timely.

And yes, the fee is annual.

Maybe next year you’ll get your registration in on time. Or register in Colorado......

MTV

I missed a Citicard payment once about 10 years ago and the late fee was preferable to this. AND they hiked my interest rate over it.

500% is egregious. That's definitely got to be a big FU to the out of staters, like Montana aeronautics has resolved that's their only recourse for enduring a little abuse and extra database storage for the additional aircraft in the system.

I think some of my MT friends in here have a light case of Stockholm syndrome. but ace007, come on man. I think I saw your carrots go flying off the high chair with that last retort. Hammer, get oFf your sister!

Wait, I think my realities are cross-contaminating...

Is there personal property tax on airplanes in Montana? Not any in Oregon. Also no sales tax in Oregon. California personal property tax is 1% of value. Oregon registration is $65.00.

qmdv wrote:Is there personal property tax on airplanes in Montana? Not any in Oregon. Also no sales tax in Oregon. California personal property tax is 1% of value. Oregon registration is $65.00.

FWIW Washington has a "use tax" when you purchase an airplane.
Interestingly it's exactly the same as the county's sales tax rate in which it's collected--
9% in my county.
There's also an annual aircraft registration fee- $65 for SE airplanes,
and no huge penalty if you're late.

Annual registration fee is the only “tax” on airplanes in MT. And, no sales tax in MT.

Hence, a lot of aircraft get “registered” here, for a small fee, this dodging both registration and sales tax in the actual home state. Which can be HUGE savings.

So, how is it the registration notice didn’t reach you? Didn’t check the PO Box it’s listed at, or?

Some would call this a learning opportunity......a tad painful, but.....

For the record, my registration fee was $25 this year. And, frankly $375 isn’t that big a deal when it comes to AMUs.

MTV

Alabama gets around out of state registrations by charging a use tax. They use the airport your airplane spends the majority of its time at to levy the tax.

Just adding to the thread drift.

CamTom12 wrote:Alabama gets around out of state registrations by charging a use tax. They use the airport your airplane spends the majority of its time at to levy the tax.

same.

CO one time use tax (no registration fees here) = 2.9% ($1450 for $50k). That $375 really cuts into the savings.

Just adding to the thread drift.

same.

Zzz wrote:I think I saw your carrots go flying off the high chair with that last retort. Hammer, get oFf your sister!

Hilarious

qmdv wrote:Is there personal property tax on airplanes in Montana? Not any in Oregon. Also no sales tax in Oregon. California personal property tax is 1% of value. Oregon registration is $65.00.

There used to be. Back in the day you used to be taxed on your plane by your county just like we are now with our cars. The fees were a lot more than they are today. A push was made to lower taxes to attract people with aircraft to move here and to foster the growth in the number of aircraft owned by residents. This would mean the counties would get less money. The compromise was that on the current fee schedule 90% of your fee goes into the general fund which then gets passed on to the counties. None of that money is spent on aviation. 10% of the fee goes to Aeronautics and for the vast majority of aircraft owners that doesn't cover the cost of the program, your sticker, map book, keeping track of you and your tracker info, etc.
Since late last summer we have a group of Montana pilots that are trying to change that to 70/30 in favor of Aeronautics, among other changes including a 10 cent hike in the gas tax and sunsetting the airline rebate. A couple bills are in the legislature now.

Yeah, but aeronautics used to be a far cry from the mess it is today! Even when Ferguson was the lead, it was a pretty top drawer group, and Debbie did fine. I've been really disappointed in the IA renewal seminars the past few years. Never enough room for everyone, and the same old stuff every year. It used to be worthwhile to go. I haven't wasted my time for the most part for the past few years. I thought I'd give it a try again a while ago...back to Missoula and a hotel that was under remodel, so we had to come in a plywood walkway, only room for 30 IA's, I never did got to see the venders...they were elsewhere and never open when we weren't in session. It was a real shame! The first one I went to in the 80's, aeronautics even picked up our rooms! They were glad to put forth effort and there were some really good speakers, and info that we all needed to know. It was what an IA refresher seminar should be. Sadly, I'm not a big fan anymore.
John