Assuming and A&P mechanic did Experimental work (like porting heads on a Lyc, 10:1 pistons, unapproved airframe mods, etc.) on a certified airplane and powerplant with the intent to hide it from the FAA... and the FAA finds out, what happens? Will he lose his license?

Unapproved mods With intent to hide... Of course this would be actionable by the FAA. Proving intent to hide might be difficult. Are you signing a statement saying you were in the room and heard the Mechanic and Owner discussing the crime? Going to testify in court? I have seen the FAA issue suspensions for minor log book mistakes but take no action at gross negligence and attempted cover ups. So many gov jobs its F up, move up so if your crime is severe enough they may make you go to work for them. "Porting" the cylinders could be classified as a repair, Ever see a weld repair cylinder and how they blend and polish? A lot of small airframe changes are just minor alterations. These really just need log book and W/B entries. There is a list of mods or repairs that make them Major. Unapproved 10:1 pistons different story. Did this A&P sign off any repair work after the mods? 100 hour? Did the owner know of the mods? and if so it is also his responsibility to have the entries made and the aircraft classified as necessary. A Mechanic can protect himself by writing a Unairworthy statement with the work accomplished stating all the mods that do not comply with the TCD and presenting it to the owner if he does not have access to the log books. The owner is then responsible to make the aircraft airworthy by changing the Airworthiness certificate to Special.
So how about a little info? Was it you? A friend of yours? Someone you dont like?

Spinner wrote:Assuming and A&P mechanic did Experimental work (like porting heads on a Lyc, 10:1 pistons, unapproved airframe mods, etc.) on a certified airplane and powerplant with the intent to hide it from the FAA... and the FAA finds out, what happens? Will he lose his license?

On experimental aircraft (airframe)A&P could do that but doesn't sign log book only owner-builder Can.Owner/pilot is responsible for "AIRWORTHINESS of aircraft. Owner himself can also do the work and fly at his own risk. A&P is for CERTIFIED AIRCRAFT AND PRODUCTS . If engine is CERTIFIED A&P must do work in APPROVED (in this case engine) manner established by manufacture for Certified engine . If he has in hand a STC for this engine he can preform modification to engine according to STC. I find that on statements above the A&P could be violated and loose his A&P or worse. Lots of Experimental owners assume that just because there airplane has "Experimental" on the side you(owner) can do what he wants--- kinda . Just remember that every flight on a experimental -pilot is on "TEST FLIGHT" .

Skydive206 wrote:So how about a little info? Was it you? A friend of yours? Someone you dont like?

No it wasn't me. I am not an A&P. I am not the owner but have an interest is the finished plane as a partner. As I understand it, the owner and mechanic had a written agreement to trade services. The owner speculates on investment property. The mechanic wanted to invest and brought his request to the owner offering a deal. They decided to trade airplane work for speculation work and the owner waived his fees. After a year and a half the property has dropped in value. The owner has managed the property above board and has his activities documented in writing. Now the mechanic's expectations are not met and he has locked the owner out of the shop and won't release the plane to him. He says he is going to file a mechanics lien on the plane to get his investment money back. The lien should be easily defended, since the owner has signed documentation verifying the mechanic understood the risks associated with the investment. They also signed Hold Harmless agreements for the services performed.

The owner is not an A&P and followed the "expert" advice of the mechanic. He's considering going to the FAA to exert pressure on the mechanic, but is concerned about what will become of his plane. Of course, now I am too. He's got lots of pics and documentation to prove what the mechanic has done.

Spinner wrote:

Skydive206 wrote:So how about a little info? Was it you? A friend of yours? Someone you dont like?

. I am not the owner but have an interest is the finished plane as a partner. The owner is not an A&P and followed the "expert" advice of the mechanic. He's considering going to the FAA to exert pressure on the mechanic, but is concerned about what will become of his plane. Of course, now I am too. He's got lots of pics and documentation to prove what the mechanic has done.

My bet is when this winds its way through all the FAA and legal challanges the plane will be found to be not airworthy because of the unapproved mods.... Do you want to be tied to this dog and pony show ?

Ben.

So, to recap.
The persons involved are Mechanic "Mick" and Speculator "Spike". Mick pitches a business deal to Spike wherein Mick performs services for Spike in return for an equity stake in one of Spikes businesses namely a Real Estate "Deal of the century". For a year and change things are going great, however when "Deal of the century" loses value Mick is pissed and wants his money. Mick seizes one of Spikes other assets in retaliation for being taken for a ride, "E ticket".
Just how much "free" work did Mick do, and who paid for the parts? I don't care how shade tree the mechanic is he should realize there are legal issues involved that could come back and bite him. Retaliation is usually not worth it.
With tongue planted firmly in cheek;
Man, I've never heard of anything so dastardly. Can you imagine investing with somebody and losing money? What's the world coming to?

I think the final verdict on the original question (intent to hide) will rest with what the mechanic signed off in the logbooks.

If a mechanic signs off the logbook saying that he did the work and that it complies with the FAA requirements for an annual or 100 hour on a certified airplane, then he is essentially lying under oath and the FAA will skin him alive... regardless of what business deal, or underage hooker, or drug deal was going on at the same time.

If the mechanic signed off that he did X Y and Z experimental work, and that (because it's a certified airplane) the owner promised to apply for an experimental airworthiness certificate, and that the airplane currently does NOT meet the FAA requirements for an annual/100 hour... then the mechanic will likely have a workable defense.

It sounds like the owner knew of the unapproved mods. Just because he says that the mech "expert" recommended the unapproved parts doesn’t remove him from the responsibility of knowing what kind of parts are required. "This will make it go faster" "hush, hush" "Giggle, Giggle" What proof do you have that the Owner was totally in the dark about the unapproved parts? May be a case of he said, he said. Don’t forget that if you go to the FAA and point fingers they usually stop at your door before they are done. Yes your airplane will be grounded until all unapproved parts are replaced and work done IAW -----. It could go as far as needing a fresh Certificate of Airworthiness if you claim ignorance on what parts are in the plane. Be carefull that the FAA may make an example of the Mechanic, Owner, all parties that knew of the parts and they should all be imprisoned for knowingly risking all of our lives by installing unapproved parts and flying the aircraft. Did you fly this aircraft knowing it had unapproved parts? Can it be proven that you didnt know? The FAA loves writing violations for each flight that you took outside of the regulations. Or just leave the plane in the mechanics hanger, take care of it in Civil Court, have the judge make the mech return the aircraft to airworthy standard as stated in the logs. Divorce is ugly. A guy I knew needed a horizontal stab for his 206, couldn’t find one for the 206, found a 210s stab that was the same except for an electric trim actuator access and P/N. He installs it then he and his wife make money with the plane. A year later they Divorce. She calls the FAA to report him flying with an unapproved part. The Feds ground his plane, threaten him with suspension of his A&P and Pilots license, then go to her house and threaten to violate her for knowingly operating the plane with unapproved parts. She wasnt the Mechanic, Pilot or passenger in the aircraft but owner / operator at the time it was flying with the unapproved parts.

sounds like a ARPC.

No good will come of involving the federal authorities, everyone will lose. Tell your friend to either settle it man to man, or chalk one up to experience and pull up his pants and go home.

Opinion.

I trade hay for mech work on the plane. Wonder what he will do if he finds a foxtail in the hay. Boy am I concerned now.

Tim

qmdv wrote:I trade hay for mech work on the plane. Wonder what he will do if he finds a foxtail in the hay. Boy am I concerned now.

Tim

You found a A&P that eats hay Are you milkin him for all he's worth