hello

An additional question on topic, since I'm an instrument student: Special VFR weather minimums are basically 1 sm viz and clear of clouds, right?

Do Special VFR clearances get granted more or less often during busy periods? I can see it being a liability technically, having a guy flying around out there low and close, but it means the separation between craft can be less, helping to ease congestion, correct?

Special VFR clearances are issued based on the ATC workload for the facility the request is being placed with. If they have a lot of inbound IFR traffic don't be surprised if they say no.

patrol guy wrote:I have a couple of questions. I know there are lots of smart guys out here and besides I am lazy (looking up the regs).

Today, while running my pipelines, I set a personal all time record. I know you Alaska operators probably do this on a daily basis, but to me this is a lot.

In less then a two and a half hour period today, I ask for and got 7 Special VFR clearances into and out of tower controlled airport airspaces.

1. Since I’m flying in IFR weather, can you log SPECIAL VFR as IFR time???

2. I’m never near this high, but was told each time to maintain 2500 ft or less. Does this mean that I can go lower then my legal 500 ft minimum that is normal for pipline flying over cities?

I don’t expect either answer to be yes, but thought they were interesting questions that I wasn’t sure about.

Thanks,
John

1.) No, since you're not flying by reference to the instruments. Kind of hard to reconcile that with flying the pipeline.

2.) No. ATC cannot grant you a waiver to the minimum distances from people/property. The assigned altitude was to gaurantee separation from IFR traffic. A SVFR is a quasi IFR operation and ATC is required to provide standard IFR separation with the exception that 500 feet vertical can be used instead of 1000.

1SeventyZ wrote:An additional question on topic, since I'm an instrument student: Special VFR weather minimums are basically 1 sm viz and clear of clouds, right?

Do Special VFR clearances get granted more or less often during busy periods? I can see it being a liability technically, having a guy flying around out there low and close, but it means the separation between craft can be less, helping to ease congestion, correct?

Most, if not all, large terminals do not allow SVFR. If an area is busy with IFR traffic you will be hard pressed to get a SVFR clearance. IFR takes precedence over SVFR operations. Because of the separation requirements VFR activity will slow to a crawl, you need the same separation as an IFR aircraft and the guys asking for SVFR are almost always the low and slow types. You need 1 mile and clear of clouds for fixed wing. Less vis is OK for helicopters.

I was bombing along one time over the salt water just west of paine Field in Everett WA, eastbound at about 500' MSL under a low layer. I was monitoring Paine tower getting ready to ask for a clearance through their airspace (hadn't even called yet!) when the controller said something like "eastbound aircraft 6 miles west of paine, we are IFR at this time and don't even THINK about asking for a special!" Suirprised the heck out of me-- didn't even reply, just turned northeast to go around the class D. Pretty funny!

Eric

SVFR min. varies by control zone although 1 mi. and clear of clouds is usual. Army helicopter min. was 1/2 mi. and clear of clouds. The weather min for rotary wing outside of controlled airspace is clear of clouds and airspeed to see and avoid if I remember correctly. A helicopter can legally fly outside of controlled airspace with his rotor in the clouds, skids in the trees and not be able to see 50 ft. There is an exception to the 500 ft. rule for helicopters if I remember right also. Rotor wing is a whole different world, I miss it. There is something really cool about being able to stop in mid air and look at something

a64pilot wrote:SVFR min. varies by control zone although 1 mi. and clear of clouds is usual. Army helicopter min. was 1/2 mi. and clear of clouds. The weather min for rotary wing outside of controlled airspace is clear of clouds and airspeed to see and avoid if I remember correctly. A helicopter can legally fly outside of controlled airspace with his rotor in the clouds, skids in the trees and not be able to see 50 ft. There is an exception to the 500 ft. rule for helicopters if I remember right also. Rotor wing is a whole different world, I miss it. There is something really cool about being able to stop in mid air and look at something

The only variable for SVFR is whether you are a fixed wing or a helicopter. There is no such thing as SVFR in uncontrolled airspace. A SVFR clearance is only valid within that part of a surface area that goes to the ground, not any outer areas(class C) or tiered areas of the class B, that's why the clearance states to "maintain SVFR while within/entering/exiting Big City surface area". What you are describing here is a mix of company regs and class G rules. You can also get a SVFR on a good VFR day if you need to operate near clouds for some reason within a surface area.

Svfr min can vary by control zones, the controlling agency sets the min. No I wasn't trying to say you get SVFR outside controlled airspace, just the rules are very different for helicopters

a64pilot wrote:Svfr min can vary by control zones

It does???

Gump

a64pilot wrote:Svfr min can vary by control zones, the controlling agency sets the min. No I wasn't trying to say you get SVFR outside controlled airspace, just the rules are very different for helicopters

You're incorrect here. SVFR is the same for everybody everywhere with the only difference being fixed wing/helicopter. Go here and then to 7-5-7.

http://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies ... 10.65R.pdf

OK, I'll have to concede, because I can't find any different, but I thought sure that there were some places that the vis min. was more than "standard", not less, but more.

Hi Guy's,
Might be mixing Army on reservation or AO in theater operations rules (not FAA Reg.s ) . ie the CG of the 101AB called the wx min.s 1/4 clear of the clouds and if you didn't fly you were grn'ed. His claim was he was willing to sacfice three crews for realistic training. Seem always to meet his training goals.

Eddie, If I remember right AR95-1 WX min. was 300&1/2 day and 500&1 night. Rotary wing, and had nothing to do with FAR's. That was outside of controlled airspace of course.
I'm always confusing FAR's and the AR's that I used to have to abide by. For example the altimeter accuracy for military was 70 ft and I believe 75 for civilian. O2 rules are different, wx min. for IFR planning is different, fuel reserves, shoot almost everything is close, but different.

One point of clarification: You will NOT get a Special VFR clearance into or out of a surface area UNLESS the reported conditions at the airport which predicates the surface area are below basic VFR. Even if you NEED to get closer than 500 or 1000 or 2000 to clouds to navigate in a surface area--makes no difference. The ATC specialist's response to a request for a special when conditions are better than 1000 and 3 miles will simply be: "Weather conditions are basic VFR, maintain VFR conditions while in the surface area.

They can't issue a special to permit you to zig zag around amongst clouds, pretending you are VFR.

Also, the point of a Special VFR Clearance is that it is NOT an IFR operation, but rather a VFR operation in IMC. Subtle difference, but not loggable as IFR.

In many surface areas, ATC may not permit more than one aircraft in the surface area at a time when weather is below basic VFR. Hence, traffic really slows down.

If they have surveillance radar there, and a local controller, sometimes they'll allow two SVFR aircraft in the Surface area at once, coming from opposite directions, or going opposite directions.

Finally, in Alaska, airplanes often enter and depart surface areas under SVFR as "flights" of several aircraft, helping to facilitate movement of traffic. Those can get a little "western" at times, but they work.

The controller has some discretion as to how loose they want to run things. If they're brave, the monkey is on their backs if anything goes south.

MTV

once upon a time, hovering along on the trees 2-3 hundred yards' of vis found the pick-up point, up jumped snuffy and wing a smoke gernade right dab in the middle of the little clearing!

I'm not sure this has come up, It's pretty obvious, but I believe you and the airplane have to be IFR current and qualified to recieve a SVFR clearance.

a64pilot wrote:I'm not sure this has come up, It's pretty obvious, but I believe you and the airplane have to be IFR current and qualified to recieve a SVFR clearance.

Only at night.

Gump

GumpAir wrote:

a64pilot wrote:I'm not sure this has come up, It's pretty obvious, but I believe you and the airplane have to be IFR current and qualified to recieve a SVFR clearance.

Only at night.

Gump

Your right, Damn, I guess I need to hit the books huh?