Backcountry Pilot • Aborting a takeoff from a short field?

Aborting a takeoff from a short field?

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Re: Aborting a takeoff from a short field?

patrol guy wrote:And she had plenty of pear to her shape


Does this have to do with making a hasty decision with your "you know what" or being worried about your take off weight with her on board?
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Re: Aborting a takeoff from a short field?

Scolopax wrote:My plane consistently takes off from a 3-point attitude in approximately 400 - 500 feet in most situations, with the exception of density altitude above about 6000' or at gross weight. It peels off of the ground indicating 38 - 42 mph and manages to accelerate through 60 mph in a second or two for a reasonable climb out of ground effect and is then ready to maneuver with decent control authority. The ASI indicates essentially nothing before that point. I have grown comfortable enough with its takeoff and landing performance to fly it in and out of seven and eight hundred foot long fields where no fifty foot obstacles exist. The performance is reliable and predictable enough that I count on the fact that I'm getting out of there, and this approach has served me well thus far. Taking off seems the only option once you have enough speed to actually make the call. This sometimes seems to be living a little on the edge, but we count on our engines to power us through situations every time that we fly over steep rugged terrain and usually on climb out as well.

I have heard rules such as you must have 70% of your takeoff speed by mid-field, otherwise abort takeoff. This is obviously not practicable when you can't really indicate 70% of takeoff speed, and you most likely couldn't get stopped without a wild ride heavy on the binders through bumpy dirt, grass, rocks, etc... It seems the takeoff can necessarily be absolutely committal in some short field scenarios, but it works out fine if you trust your equipment and use good judgment, even though sufficient margin for changing your mind doesn't exist. Has anybody developed any strategies or know of any effective rules for aborting a takeoff from a short field where so little time defines the difference between wise precautionary action and potential disaster?


Sounds like you know your plane and how it performs in all configurations and most conditions. Important.

Before I really knew my plane I had an incident (ok, an accident :^o ) where the rules of thumb could have served me and yet I didn't pay attention to them. I managed to simply bend metal instead of killing myself and my passengers, because I at least knew enough to mitigate the situation I was in, if I was too dumb to prevent it. I aborted in time to keep from hitting the big trees, instead sliding into the small ones.

I figure that using the time-honored rules of thumb are damned important when you are in unusual situations, including in a plane that is relatively new to you. Or if you usually fly with one person and 3/4 fuel and then all of a sudden are flying at full gross. Or at DA that is unusual for you. Whatever.
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Re: Aborting a takeoff from a short field?

A guy should also have a plan when to abort on landing short runways too:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_Vh0oJr ... r_embedded
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Re: Aborting a takeoff from a short field?

SPEED KILLS!
Those last transition marker bars should have been a giveaway that he was going to really need more brakes than he had.
I wonder if he was out of gas or if the passenger was flying because the pilot wasn't there?
Looks like a hellava hill to drop over when they have that water runway all marked out. I didn't see any white caps on the water? Wind sock looked like about 5kts from the other way. I guess you just are never never supposed to land down wind!!
Looked like an ok landing, bent some iron but looked like they walked away.
GT

John, your hat was sweating night before last, I should have watched this video before I flew to Pilot Station, Landed the ol 195 in about the mostest and gustiest crosswind I've ever done, 90 degrees and almost on top of a ridge. Real stupid sometimes!!!! Now I just have to figure out how to replace half a dozen rivets?? 15 minutes can sure make a difference in the weather?? Came back to Marshall and landed on the apron into the wind 25 w g 35 The 195 can stop in less than 200' Real STOL performer?? Sure glad Greg wasn't there with his video. Ugly and stupid. Cessna sure made a forgiving old girl! It just never ends,(I mean the learning how to fly)
Hope your enjoying life
GT
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Re: Aborting a takeoff from a short field?

Not that I could add anything of value to this awesome thread...

But this one:
Very glad my dad is in the left seat. We eventually leave tera firma, but those tree's are looming ahead and we arent near the tops. I dont say a word. I do take a sideways glance at my dad. He has that rock solid look that I have seen many times before. Total confidence, and total commitment. I hear a wack as some part of the airplane hits one of the tree tops as we weave our way through the tallest ones. After we are back in cruise mode I ask him: "So, dad.....you think we could have gotten off any sooner than that?" "Nope".


was hands down the best laugh I've had in a while!
Funny, how that "total confidence and total commitment" look turns out to run through certain families...
Do you think he knew that you would hit the trees.........?
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Re: Aborting a takeoff from a short field?

i only hope that all of us, when dealt dueces and we're lookin' for aces, have the nerve to crash one as gracefully as we can, and not donate people, just some metal...!
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Re: Aborting a takeoff from a short field?

JJBAKER wrote:Not that I could add anything of value to this awesome thread...

But this one:
Very glad my dad is in the left seat. We eventually leave tera firma, but those tree's are looming ahead and we arent near the tops. I dont say a word. I do take a sideways glance at my dad. He has that rock solid look that I have seen many times before. Total confidence, and total commitment. I hear a wack as some part of the airplane hits one of the tree tops as we weave our way through the tallest ones. After we are back in cruise mode I ask him: "So, dad.....you think we could have gotten off any sooner than that?" "Nope".


was hands down the best laugh I've had in a while!
Funny, how that "total confidence and total commitment" look turns out to run through certain families...
Do you think he knew that you would hit the trees.........?


Knowing my dad, in that situation I believe that he was aiming to skim the tree tops. His style in a very short field would be to use all available airspeed. Thus, to use a angle of attack that would put him right near tree tops will give him the best possible departure that will avoid chance of a stall etc., like using the "whole" road in a tight turn. By the way, he was very familiar with this strip in other aircraft. When I was a kid we summered on Vashon and he kept his Champ and Pacer there in the summer. So he knew how things looked on a good departure. This is the same guy who would throw 30 rolls of colored toilet paper out his window while flying over Quartermaster Harbor, Vashon on the 4th of July. He would use the Champ to commute to his job at SeaTac flying 707s. Often returning to Vashon at night he would have to call my mom to come and drive down the grass runway to scare off all the sheep. He gave serious consideration to taping over his numbers and making a surprise touch and go on one of the aircraft carriers up here with the Champ. I could go on, but you get the picture. :shock:
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Re: Aborting a takeoff from a short field?

All...good subject matter......when I was younger, I enjoyed pushing Super Cubs and C-180's in and out of ultra short strips. Later, I was flying for the airlines and was trained on lots of safety and performance standards for safe aircraft operation....now I am much more conservative as there are many more back country strips to explore safely and I want to be around to explore them all...just some thoughts from an old seasoned guy who has already worn that T shirt...
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Re: Aborting a takeoff from a short field?

I split the taildragger vs nosewheel posts to a new topic:

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=4357
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