Backcountry Pilot

[Grassstrippilot offline]

Split from this thread... -Z
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I'm glad to hear that they are alright, relatively speaking. I think it serves as a sober reminder that if it can happen to Sparky, the expert in the area of flying the backcountry, it can surely happen to anyone. Let's all be careful out there and give risk a wide berth.

As I was reading the account of what happened, I remembered something that Rob Hunter said at the Wings survival program he put on. He said that sometimes after an accident, all you have is what you had on you when you went down. He advocates having and wearing a vest full of survival equipment. Sounds like even better advice now. As soon as the budget can afford it, I'm going to purchase one of the personal 406 ELTs.

[mtv offline]

Many years ago, a fellow named Ray Tremblay coined the phrase

"Survival Gear is what's in your pockets when you go out the door. The stuff in that orange (or green, or??) bag in the baggage compartment is Camping Gear, NOT Survival Gear".

I've worn a survival vest for MANY years and a lot of hours, but since I moved to the lower 48, and haven't been "working" an airplane, I've gotten kind of casual about wearing a survival vest.

Guess it's time to review the vest contents and wear it all the time again.

MTV

[Skylane offline]

I've worn a survival vest for MANY years and a lot of hours, but since I moved to the lower 48, and haven't been "working" an airplane, I've gotten kind of casual about wearing a survival vest.

MTV

MTV,

So clue me in on what you carry in your vest? What type of vest is it? Where can a guy find one? I usually carry a back pack with all the stuff I think I may need, same pack I use for Elk and Deer hunting. But after reading what happened I can see you may not have the chance to dig it out of the back. And I had never even given that a thought

I too am happy that "Sparky" and "JC" made it out with just injuries. It just goes to show that something can jump up and bite you in the butt, no matter how many hours are in the log book. Just one way the good Lord can get your attention.

Thanks, Bub

[a64pilot offline]

Skylane,
The best and cheapest place to buy a survival vest would be places like pawn shops outside of Ft. Rucker in Daleville Al. etc. Not too long ago the Army upgraded all of their survival vests to include extraction harnesses and sold all of the old ones at DRMO. There should be several still available for a very small price. If you get a commercial one be sure to not get one made from nylon mesh. Nylon melts, Nomex doesn't.
The military survival vest had a tourniquet, knife, survival radio, GPS, Bag to pee in, bag for fresh water, space blanket that was blaze orange on one side, whistle, strobe, first aid kit with burn stuff, pain killers, bandages, water purification tablets, immodium for diarhrrea, etc. also in the vest, pen flares, signal mirror, fire starter. The knife was a big fixed blade knife that was attached to the outside of the vest in a leather sheath. It was also intended to be used to hack your way through the plexiglass if you had too. It had a sharpening stone in the sheath. I almost forgot there was a lensatic compass as well. We were also issued survival maps that were printed on some kind of cloth that would fold like paper, but could get wet and wouldn't tear.
I would put a 406 mhz. PLB in the pocket meant for the survival radio.
The idea of a vest of course is that in the event of a severe crash and fire the only thing you would have is what you have on your back. For that reason we would wear coats and long underwear in the aircraft in cold weather as opposed to using the heater.
Most of the older guy's would pack what was called a Di-Di mau bag. Small bag that sat right beside you in the cockpit that had other nice to have items like food etc. The idea was if you didn't have time to get to the survival kit in the back of the aircraft, you would grab the bag on your way out.

[mtv offline]

A64 pretty well covered it. My vest is an SRU-21/P vest, which was the Air Force version of the vest that A 64 describes. THey're available from a lot of surplus stores, or you can still order new ones on line as well.

If you don't mind spending a few extra bucks, buy a new one. Here's the reason: New, the Air Force vests came as a mesh vests, with a BUNCH of pockets, not attached. The pilot then took his vest to the rigging shop and told them which pockets he wanted sewed on, and where. This gives you the option of deciding where things should go, and believe me, having a big bulky pocket in the wrong place can be a pain.

Many if not most of the used vests also have a holster for a handgun. Even if you carry a handgun, it likely won't fit that holster, so wasted space, and stiffness, etc.

Theres a web site called Flighthelmet.com sells new or used ones, as well as the Army and Navy style vests if you prefer them. I believe the primary difference between the AF and Army vests was the color. Navy vests were some different.

GIve some careful thought to which pockets you want, and what you put in them. These things can get really bulky, and therefore uncomfortable to wear, and therefore in the baggage compt. Keep it simple.

Here's what I carry at a minimum:

1) One of the new ACR Microfix 406 PLB's
2) Three means to start a fire: Strike anywhere matches or lifeboat matches in waterproof container, Bic lighter, Blast Match in my case.
3) Signals: SIGNAL MIRROR-This is how JC was found, not using a mirror, but same concept. I carry small smoke canisters that can be set off manually, or tossed in a fire to drive the smoke up and color the fires smoke. They are smaller than a film canister. Cheap. Flashlight--mini mag light, or ??? Lots of good small lights out there. Spare batteries.
4) In summer, bug dope, small vial
5) One of the very small Space blankets--the kind that is mylar thin, not the big ones. A bit of shelter, plus a good signal device

6) First Aid: Blood stopper bandage. If you can find it (from a Doc) blood stopper powder. Ibuprofen. If you can get your doc to prescribe some for this purpose, a small bottle of quality pain meds--Percocet or?? You shouldn't need but a few. Maybe an Ace bandage, though they're bulky.
7) A KNIFE. A Leatherman or other multitool is also a must carry, in my opinion, but they do NOT constitute a GOOD KNIFE. It can be a good folder, which is what I carry, but get a good locking blade knife.
Several zip lock bags with the zipper. You can gather water, and store a lot of the little stuff in these. They can be used for lots of stuff.
9) 50 Feet of parachute cord. Toughest cordage on the planet for its size and weight. Used for securing shelters, signals, etc.

That's pretty much it. You can carry a tube tent, and all kinds of other stuff. Food to me is irrelevant. People have been in the woods for literally months without food and did just fine. Food is heavy and bulky.

People carry whistles, etc. which is fine, but I figure where I''m likely to be, they'll be looking with airplanes.....

I don't carry flares, cause occasionally, I have to move by airline, and those are a no no in baggage, AND flares, particularly pen flares are a TERRIBLE daylight signal. THey are also a very short duration signal, so even at night searchers have to be looking right at you when you launch them. I just don't bother with them particularly now with the PLB. I'd rather have a smoke canister.

Just don't load the thing down so heavy that you won't wear it.

I may have missed something, so this is a good reminder to do an annual inventory.

MTV

[a64pilot offline]

Now that MTV brought it up, I remember that we had hand held dual purpose flares of some type. One side was smoke, for day obviously, but the other side was some type of bright flare for night. I remember the night flare side had two bumps on the end to tell you which one to use at night.
Anybody know where these can be bought? For the pistol, we would wear shoulder holsters and put them on before the vest and slip the holster under the arm on the outside of the vest. Worked much better for the reasons MTV said.

[Grassstrippilot offline]

As to where to find vests. Rob Hunter offers one from his company Prepared Pilots. (preparedpilots.com). I think you could also make due with a variety of fishing vests. The previous comment regarding nylon vs. nomex is something to consider. I would think that you could find some kind of non-nylon fishing vest. So far, what I have found seems to run about the same as the one from Prepared Pilots so you might be better off just getting one from them.

I believe he also has a list on his website that includes what kind of stuff he includes in his survival kits as well as his vests. At the safetly seminar that he put on earlier this year, he had some pretty cool gear on display. I need to review what all was there and make some additions to my kit and get a vest.

[FloatFlyer offline]

MTV:As usual you have some well thought out suggestions on what to carry. Would you clarify what a "blast match" is? Also, I have not seen any small smoke canisters, where might I buy these?

On my camping trips, I carry enough gear to survive for months in remote areas. As has been repeatedly stated, the survivial gear you can count on is what you leave the plane with. Wendy wears the vest and I carry the PLB and sat phone. Later, Ford

[mtv offline]

Ford,

The blast match is a fire starter tool. Wup Winn was selling some last I heard, and I need to get back with him to follow up. I'm down to one.

Road flares are great, but I wouldn't carry them on my person.

Don't bet that you won't be looked for at night either, folks. Nowadays, virtually every military and many civilian law enforcement helicopter outfit is flying on NVG. Show them a mini mag light from ten miles away, and they'll come right to you. That's the "survival" reason I carry a small flashlight.

Again, the flares are a short duration signal. You need both short and long duration signals if you're going to be there for a while.

As I noted, flares don't travel well. I've always got the smoke canisters a various sporting goods stores, Cabela's, etc.

MTV

[mtv offline]

One thing I failed to mention in my last post is the difference between a fishermans vest and the military vests is two fold:

the military vests can be had in Nomex

and, they are MESH.

Try wearing this stuff around Oshkosh in summer, when it's 103 degrees and 98 % rh. Mesh is good.

MTV

[Zzz]

Try wearing this stuff around Oshkosh in summer, when it's 103 degrees and 98 % rh. Mesh is good.

Proper survival equipment, space blanket and Blast Match just to name a few, are critical when touring the rows of aircraft in the sea of grassy lawns where Mother Nature and EAA enthusiasts will smite thee at any opportunity.

[mtv offline]

Oh, sure, Zane, ya gotta pick on my grammar and syntax, or whatever you call that.

Of course, I meant whilst FLYING around places like OSH on a fine summer's day.

Though some folks do get a little rough there on the ground as well..

MTV

[Skylane offline]

A lot of good information here. I believe I'll start looking for a couple vests here in the near future.

One of the things I carry in my hunting pack in addition to some of the same stuff mentioned, is a small sized, 10'x10' when unfolded painters drop cloth, actually plastic. Light weight, little space used.

I'll check with some of the surplus stores, and maybe some of the mags I get, Cheaper than Dirt, Sportsmans Guide, etc...

Got to get some smoke canisters

Thanks for sharing, Bub

[GumpAir offline]

Another thing to consider and keep stashed in your vest or quick bag is a thick, mindless, spy thriller paperback novel. Sit by your broke down airplane for a couple days and boredom becomes a major pain in the butt.

And... Tear out pages as you read and use 'em for TP, kindling, writing paper, etc...

Gump

[Prepared Pilot offline]

Here is the list of what I carry in my vest. I keep the vest in my airplane draped over my seat and put it on every time I fly. Although it is a little heavy when standing around once I am sitting most of the weight is distributed and supported so that I do not feel it at all. It has a total of 22 pockets, a mesh back that makes it cooler, and a D-ring next to the PLB pocket for extra security.

When flying over areas with lots of water I wear a Inflatable Nomex Survival Vest. The main reason I do not use it all the time is that it only has four pockets and does not carry as much. I'll post about it a little later.

• 1 ACR MicroFix 406 MHz PLB with built in GPS
• 1 VXA-300 "lite" transceiver (compact, waterproof, metal case, uses alkaline batteries)
• 1 Garmin Geko 201 GPS (waterproof, very compact)
• 1 Laser Flare (waterproof, 20 mile visibility, 40 hr battery)
• 1 LED headlamp (compact, 4 bulb)
• 1 Windproof Lighter with altitude adjustment
• 2 WetFire™ Tinder, waterproof, floats, burns at over 1300 degrees, easy to ignite
• 1 Box REI Stormproof matches, water proof and wind proof with 4 strikers
• 1 Chemical Hand Warmers, pair
• 1 Chemical Foot Warmers, pair
• 1 Emergency Bag, 84”x36”, wind and waterproof, sleeping bag design, can be used inside or over a sleeping bag or by itself, reflects 80% of radiated heat
• 1 Emergency Blanket
• 1 Poncho, hooded polyethylene, 50”x80” to protect you from wind or rain
• 1 Bandanna for shade, warmth, straining water, signaling, bandaging
• 1 Insect Repellant, 30%deet
• 1 Lip Balm, SPF 30
• 1 Sunscreen, SPF 40, 1oz.
• 1 Balaclava to provide warmth
• 1 Mosquito Head Net with super fine mesh to keep out the smallest bugs.
• 4 4oz emergency water packets
• 50 Iodine Water Purification Tablets
• 1 Buck Bantam folding knife, Textured contour handle with lanyard hole, locking blade,one handed opening, 400HC stainless steel blade. Length closed - 3.75". Length blade - 2.75". Weight - 1.5 oz.
• 25 ft. Parachute Cord, 550 lb. test, 7 strand, can be used as is or separated into separate strands for shelter building and other uses
• 2 Zip Lock Heavy Duty Freezer Bags, gallon, water, food and supply container
• 2 Zip Lock Heavy Duty Freezer Bags, quart, water and food container, wound irrigation
• 4 Ibuprofen (200mg.) packet two per pack
• PREPARED PILOT POCKET PACK Contains the following items:
o 1 Heavy Duty, Waterproof, Vinyl Pouch, (3.25"x5")
o 2 Individually Sealed Water Purification Tablets
o 1 Heavy Duty Ziploc Bag™, Qt. size, collecting water and other uses
o 1 Spark-Lite™ Military fire starter capable of starting thousands of fires with only one hand
o 4 Tinder-Quik™ waterproof tinder, easily lit with the Spark-Lite™ and burns 2-3 minutes each
o 1 Rescue-Flash™ signal mirror, made of durable LEXAN® with mil-spec aiming aid
o 1 Rescue Howler™ Emergency signal whistle (110 decibel pea-less whistle)
o 1 20mm compass, liquid damped with fast acting needle
o 1 Duct Tape 2"x26", repairs, first aid, and countless other uses
o 1 Sterile Scalpel Blade, light duty cutting chores, first aid, splinter removal
o 1 Stainless Steel Utility Wire (6 ft)
o 1 Fresnel Magnifier for reading small print and emergency fire starting
o 50 ft. Heavy Duty Nylon Thread
o 1 Heavy Duty Sewing Needle with large eye
o 4 Fish Hooks
o 2 Sinkers
o 1 Snap Swivel
o 3 sq. ft. of Heavy Duty Foil, reflecting heat from a fire or improvising a cooking container
o 10 ft. Heavy Duty Nylon Cord (150 lb test), shelter building and many other uses
o 4 Safety Pins
o 1 Pencil

[Berk offline]

Whew. Quite a good list.

I always carry a snake bite kit in warm Wx. The best are the plunger/syringe type w/ different suction end shapes, which come in a yellow plastic case. Toss the case, and just put it in a small bag for compact storage.

These can also be used for yellow jacket stings, or any venomous critter.

Also, I'm surprised no one's mentioned Dehydrated Water - light weight, and when you need to use it, just add water.
Berk

[tgiencke offline]

Instead of a vest I have all of my survival gear packed into a "Blowfish" camelback mini backpack that also stores 3L of water. I think this works out better than a vest because I can pack more stuff and the water. It lives hanging off the back of my seat and stays there well with the sternum strap.

Take a look at http://www.camelbak.com/index.cfm

Got to run...

-Todd Giencke

[mtv offline]

Todd,

The rub there is these guys said, when they were just barely done crashing, JC said his right foot was hot, and Sparky said "We're on fire". They bailed out of the plane and said they only got a few feet from it before it went up.

It's going to take a LOT of presence of mind to grab that thing off your seat back on the way out.

Secondly, anything hung on a seat back adds weight. That equates to forward force upon deceleration, and more liklihood of harness failure, or your face decorating the instrument panel. Either one of those, and you WON'T get out of the airplane, probably.

I had a friend who took the approach you describe and died with the stuff still hanging on the seat back. This was a seaplane, though, but still...

MTV

[Zzz]

Todd- That is a great idea re: the Camelbak on the back of the seat.

Guys- Here are a few older threads that have some good info too:

Survival:
http://www.backcountrypilot.org/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=253
http://www.backcountrypilot.org/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=54

PLB's
http://www.backcountrypilot.org/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=982

Fire starting
http://www.backcountrypilot.org/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1127

I should install a Wiki that we can update with what we determine to be "definitive" information, so it's easier to find and glean useful knowledge from.

[Berk offline]

...I should install a Wiki that we can update with what we determine to be "definitive" information, so it's easier to find and glean useful knowledge from.

Yeah, Zane, that'd be great to be able to access this info quickly.

What I wonder though, is how would you find time to add & maintain it?
Your time commitment to this site must be substantial - though I'm just guessing by the few comments you've made in reference to stuff you deal with in relation to keeping this site active & useful.

Thanks for your work for all of us, Berk