Saturday, I flew in to Newport Oregon. I followed traffic in on the downwind and flew a standard pattern making appropriate radio calls for landing #2 on 34. As I was rolling out, a blue J-4 flew about 10 feet or less above us at 80-90 mph. We felt the plane pulse downward on its gear from the pass, and I got on the horn and asked what that was all about. Someone replied on CTAF that it was the cub without a radio. I carried on, while the cub did a few T & Gs, then after a while the cub taxied by for it's hangar. I walked over and said "man that was close. What happened?" The guy was a belligerent idiot, saying "YOU CUT ME OFF IN THE PATTERN", and "I OUGHTTA". I just replied "I'm glad that nobody was hurt", with Friday's accident at JC resonating freshly in my mind, and walked off. The gentleman in the FBO later told me that he heard this moron boast to his instructor, who also is an idiot allowing or encouraging such recklessness while giving dual, "BOY WE SURE SHOWED THAT GUY..."

I have never before experienced a case of "air rage", but talk about a foolish emotional reaction in the cockpit. If I was doing a touch and go or executed a go-around, there would likely have been four fatalities.

If you encounter an instructor or pilot that flies a blue J-4 based at ONP, stay the hell away. These fools are dangerous.

Sounds like a scene from the movie "Deliverance" !

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deliverance
Deliverance is a 1972 American thriller film produced and directed by John Boorman and starring Jon Voight, Burt Reynolds, Ronny Cox, and Ned Beatty, with ...
‎Deliverance (novel) - ‎Deliverance (disambiguation) - ‎Dueling Banjos - ‎James Dickey

The basic rules we have near an airport go a long way towards making the occasional traffic conflict a non-event. It means the inevitable conflicts that arise will be of a class that is less of a concern, and are mitigated more easily, than random use of the airspace.

At my field, which has a lot more traffic than many towered fields, with skydivers thrown in the mix, it is generally a good idea to consider that you will not be seen 100% of the time by average pilots on average days with and without radios (or at least using their radios) while in the pattern. I still don't see why people get bent out of shape every time they get occasionally cut off in a busy pattern, encounter a radio free flyer, etc...they should expect to at times, be ready for it, and when it does happen, it should be a forgettable experience when the basic rules are generally adhered to. Nobody does it on purpose, and 99.9% of folks already have their head on a swivel.

I've had to abort takeoffs (skydivers landing on runway), landings (folks feeling the need to hold before departure for minutes after trying to squeeze in a departure between arrivals), etc., because I wanted to fly when lots of folks were out enjoying the same airspace as I was, despite radio calls and accommodation. It's part of the bargain.

I'm not entitled to having things work perfectly. I've had radio failures, lighting failures, and who knows- despite being paranoid in busy areas, I might have even cut somebody off by their estimation.

Even if I had no recollection of' cutting anyone off', I'd be a total fool to assert I've never cut anyone off, because I know folks who have 'cut me off' are completely oblivious to the fact they did. It is a laugh to hear people claim they have never failed to see a traffic conflict or have never done something others didn't recognize as legendary airmanship at any point in their flying career.

Extremely well said Lesuther!

I thought the lower aircraft on landing had the right of way. Sounds like this instructor needs to review his FAR/AIM

Was Scolopax rolling out into the active runway? Landing traffic has right-a-way? But, purposely closing in on an aircraft is something I avoid. Right or wrong safety first.

8GCBC wrote:Was Scolopax rolling out into the active runway? Landing traffic has right-a-way? But, purposely closing in on an aircraft is something I avoid. Right or wrong safety first.

I had landed and was on roll out, and the other airplane buzzed over the top very closely in an act of air rage. Very dangerous move, that there is absolutely no excuse for. Like I said, if I was doing a touch and go, there would have likely been four fatalities.

Scolopax wrote:

8GCBC wrote:Was Scolopax rolling out into the active runway? Landing traffic has right-a-way? But, purposely closing in on an aircraft is something I avoid. Right or wrong safety first.

I had landed and was on roll out, and the other airplane buzzed over the top very closely in an act of air rage. Very dangerous move, that there is absolutely no excuse for. Like I said, if I was doing a touch and go, there would have likely been four fatalities.

There was/is no call, excuse and/or purpose coming close and rattling another bird. I agree with you. Thank you for the head ups. Oregon is a different world in many respects from where I was raised.

8GCBC wrote:Oregon is a different world in many respects from where I was raised.

I'm not sure that generalization is warranted. Bad apples are everywhere. The majority of Oregon aviators I've met fit right into my personal observation that the majority of people in aviation are wonderful and a handful are complete wackos.

Zzz wrote:

8GCBC wrote:Oregon is a different world in many respects from where I was raised.

I'm not sure that generalization is warranted. Bad apples are everywhere. The majority of Oregon aviators I've met fit right into my personal observation that the majority of people in aviation are wonderful and a handful are complete wackos.

What I see in the rural areas of the country is sometimes people get away with a lot more than let's say Class "B" in L.A.. Because of the freedoms, these certain type of personalities become overly transparent with their flaws and it can get dangerous. I have listened to some outrageous stories traveling around, some may even be true.

Now, about Oregon... The people that are born and raised in Oregon generally I look up to. They are well mannered, self sufficient, and overly kind people. Oregon does also have a huge transit population issue. Most of the bizzare stories I have witnessed were from guys coming in from other States. My friends and pilots that are really Oregonian are the best!

lesuther wrote:The basic rules we have near an airport go a long way towards making the occasional traffic conflict a non-event. It means the inevitable conflicts that arise will be of a class that is less of a concern, and are mitigated more easily, than random use of the airspace.

At my field, which has a lot more traffic than many towered fields, with skydivers thrown in the mix, it is generally a good idea to consider that you will not be seen 100% of the time by average pilots on average days with and without radios (or at least using their radios) while in the pattern. I still don't see why people get bent out of shape every time they get occasionally cut off in a busy pattern, encounter a radio free flyer, etc...they should expect to at times, be ready for it, and when it does happen, it should be a forgettable experience when the basic rules are generally adhered to. Nobody does it on purpose, and 99.9% of folks already have their head on a swivel.

I've had to abort takeoffs (skydivers landing on runway), landings (folks feeling the need to hold before departure for minutes after trying to squeeze in a departure between arrivals), etc., because I wanted to fly when lots of folks were out enjoying the same airspace as I was, despite radio calls and accommodation. It's part of the bargain.

I'm not entitled to having things work perfectly. I've had radio failures, lighting failures, and who knows- despite being paranoid in busy areas, I might have even cut somebody off by their estimation.

Even if I had no recollection of' cutting anyone off', I'd be a total fool to assert I've never cut anyone off, because I know folks who have 'cut me off' are completely oblivious to the fact they did. It is a laugh to hear people claim they have never failed to see a traffic conflict or have never done something others didn't recognize as legendary airmanship at any point in their flying career.

Extremely well said friend. Safety is paramount, humility is welcome, diligence allows for margins, and I pray for luck.

Do you fly an Apache? I have a bunch of time in the PA-23-160. We used it for ground sensing operations in Hawaii. Still flying and making $, incredible bird!

Scolopax wrote:

8GCBC wrote:Was Scolopax rolling out into the active runway? Landing traffic has right-a-way? But, purposely closing in on an aircraft is something I avoid. Right or wrong safety first.

I had landed and was on roll out, and the other airplane buzzed over the top very closely in an act of air rage. Very dangerous move, that there is absolutely no excuse for. Like I said, if I was doing a touch and go, there would have likely been four fatalities.

Log an incident report for a near-miss.

If it was unsafe, technically you are obligated to report it. Also given recent events, if you have genuine concerns about the safety of the flight, there's probably a moral obligation too.

If you don't report it, and look the other way - then you allow the behaviour to continue, and your inaction could result in someone else being subjected to the same risks or even hurt/killed. Intentionally dangerous behaviour towards others has no place in aviation.

8GCBC wrote:Do you fly an Apache? I have a bunch of time in the PA-23-160. We used it for ground sensing operations in Hawaii. Still flying and making $, incredible bird!

Yeah, I'm flying/training guys in several of them. Ethanol free Mogas, and vodka martinis aside (calm your nerves after single engine work), they are a fun plane in the right hands, and a gift from the time building gods for many a young pilot. PM me if you want pics of my apache (the POS) on a side of a volcano in Guatemala .

TwinPOS wrote:

8GCBC wrote:Do you fly an Apache? I have a bunch of time in the PA-23-160. We used it for ground sensing operations in Hawaii. Still flying and making $, incredible bird!

Yeah, I'm flying/training guys in several of them. Ethanol free Mogas, and vodka martinis aside (calm your nerves after single engine work), they are a fun plane in the right hands, and a gift from the time building gods for many a young pilot. PM me if you want pics of my apache (the POS) on a side of a volcano in Guatemala .

The first all metal twin GA airplane! Still making money! I also, had the big sister ( same TCDS ) the PA23-250! I miss both those aircraft. When one flys over, I almost cry. Thank you for the picture offer...

Scolopax wrote:Saturday, I flew in to Newport Oregon. I followed traffic in on the downwind and flew a standard pattern making appropriate radio calls for landing #2 on 34. As I was rolling out, a blue J-4 flew about 10 feet or less above us at 80-90 mph. We felt the plane pulse downward on its gear from the pass, and I got on the horn and asked what that was all about. Someone replied on CTAF that it was the cub without a radio. I carried on, while the cub did a few T & Gs, then after a while the cub taxied by for it's hangar. I walked over and said "man that was close. What happened?" The guy was a belligerent idiot, saying "YOU CUT ME OFF IN THE PATTERN", and "I OUGHTTA". I just replied "I'm glad that nobody was hurt", with Friday's accident at JC resonating freshly in my mind, and walked off. The gentleman in the FBO later told me that he heard this moron boast to his instructor, who also is an idiot allowing or encouraging such recklessness while giving dual, "BOY WE SURE SHOWED THAT GUY..."

I have never before experienced a case of "air rage", but talk about a foolish emotional reaction in the cockpit. If I was doing a touch and go or executed a go-around, there would likely have been four fatalities.

If you encounter an instructor or pilot that flies a blue J-4 based at ONP, stay the hell away. These fools are dangerous.

Call your local FSDO and have a quiet word with the safety officer. This need to be reported. The next time you or your family, if traveling with you may not be so lucky..

I tell this as an interesting story, not as something to learn from. Well, other than air rage is not particularly new.

On my student solo cross country in the mid sixties when I was a freshly ticketed 16 yr old student pilot, I was flying the only plane I had ever flown to that point, a J-3 Cub. I had been taught by a youngish instructor, who had been taught by several older, wiser pre-WWII pilots and WWII pilots. It was taught relatively religiously then that when you reduced power on downwind, you made it a point to keep the plane within engine out gliding distance of the threshold through base and final (a carryover from the early days of aviation when engines were quite unreliable). That obviously keeps a slow J-3 quite close in to the runway and threshold by today's standards.
I arrived at the airport just as I had been briefed. My pattern altitude was right on. There was a plane crossing the threshold to land which confirmed the active pattern/runway. The aircraft I was flying was NORDO-which was very common then, since there were no handhelds invented yet. I looked and swiveled and checked, and triple checked for any traffic as I patterned very properly. On final, at about 200 ft AGL a fast twin passed on the right slightly above me and descended with a curve back to over the runway, and proceeded to land long in front of me. As he passed when he was almost directly in front of me he aggressively "cleared his engines", I presume at a minimum to give me a rough ride. My decent rate was a lot steeper than his, and after the excitement of the edge of the wake turbulence, I continued down into flare and landed. I turned off at the first turn off and taxied to the pumps to get return trip fuel. When I was starting the fueling process the twin roared up close (too close) and cut his engines, and an elderly man came bounding and roaring out of the aircraft absolutely enraged, and gave me an emotional expletive enriched description of exactly what I was and what I had done.
Evidently he was either on a straight in approach, or very long final, and with the background of slightly rising terrain, plus the town for a visual background, I had not seen him during my search for other aircraft. I would have had to spot him straight on, and since he was fast he would have been quite a ways out when I was looking for him. I had never been in a pattern with fast movers before, so it was a rather dramatic and emphatic education. I had missed seeing him in spite of my excellent young vision, and my thorough search for other aircraft.
I was quite shaken at that point, not from the air portion, even though I knew if I had been directly in his wake with the blast from his props and my slow speed, it could have been more than exciting, but because of his very self righteous damning rage.
Finally he wound down, and left. I finished fueling, and when I went in to pay, the counter attendant commented that he noticed I had "met" the resident airport asshole, and that I should take it in stride, that my new acquaintance wanted to run the whole airport and everyone on it.

Ahhh. Memories.
lc

Report it. They can slap him with a wreck less violation, then we will see who is showing who.

Just to mention some side info...

There is USCG ( KONP) on the field ( one H65 ) and the Coasties listen and watch the airfield and traffic. Not formally, but they have made a least one bust on minimums on a twin.

KONP IS NOT a great place to prove a point by breaking rules/laws. There is also a full time FAA tech, and Federal Fire Fighting there too. The guys at the FBO are really cool but, no $hit is going to happen on their watch.

Fly safe.

I must admit I've been tempted to "really show someone" who wronged me in the pattern, but it's better to just choke it down and do whatever is required to land safely-- go around, do a 360, extent downwind, whatever. Just the other day at a local airport, a guy pulled out and backtaxied for 25 as I turned short final for 7. I recognized the airplane, I've met the owner and was pretty unimpressed by him so unfortunately I wasn't too surprised. Since I had seen it out near the runway as I crossed overhead, I made plenty of radio calls (overhead, midfield downwind, downwind abeam, base) but of course he didn't say shit. I went around, turning out toward downwind instead of buzzing right over the top of him as I was tempted to do. Of course, part of that was not knowing if he was backtaxiing (for a downwind takeoff) as turned out to be the case, or actually taking off. I did make it very clear on the radio that I was "SHORT FINAL, GOING AROUND BECAUSE OF THE RED AND WHITE GLASSTAR ON THE RUNWAY". No reply, even when I asked if he was on frequency, but I noticed that he double-timed it up the runway after my radio call so I'm sure he heard me. If it ws me I would've at least apologized- that usually goes a long ways toward smoothing any ruffled feathers. BTW this was at an airport without a parallel taxiway, and where skydiving operations have started recently, so you'd sure think he'd have been more careful.
I gues the moral of this story is that there are a lot of idiots out there, so beware.