Two days ago my mechanic calls Airglas to see if they have ski attachment fittings and bungees we can buy. Airglas asks for what kind of skis. My mechanic says "Experimental". Airglas says sure we've got what you need.

Yesterday I drive from Soldotna to Airglas (in Anchorage) to pick up the parts. I hand the list to Airglas. He looks it over and asks me what kind of skis? I say Carbon Concepts. He hands me back the list and say "No, I'm not selling you anything."

Airglas doesn't go into much detail but it's clear he hates Carbon Concepts.

The person I'm traveling with says "We drove from Soldotna, three hours to get these parts". Airglas hesitates a minute rethinking his position, then again says "No".

I'm the customer. I was told Airglas could sell me what I needed. I traveled nearly three hours to buy from them. I don't give a rats ass what their grievance is with anyone. I'm the customer.

Childish and petty. And piss poor business conduct.

Playing the devil's advocate here, but it sounds like you changed your answer. Your mechanic said "Experimental" in what sounds like an effort to be purposely vague. Was he expecting to get a "no" if he told them they were actually the brand you had, knowing full well that the guy would say no, and you were hoping that the guy would have pity on you when you arrived with a 3-hour drive story? Why not just tell the guy up front what kind of skis you had? Contrary to popular belief, the customer isn't always right.

I had a lumber guy tell me the same thing when I attempted to buy Douglas Fir from him for an aircraft project. I told him it was for a plane, and no matter how much I tried to reason with the guy, he firmly told me no and he wasn't going to help me.

I personally don't know if those skies are experimental or certified, but it they are experimental, I am agreeing with you BS!

I met Randy of Carbon Concepts, a few years ago at Oshkosh and I thought he was a very nice guy. Something bad must have transpired for them to have such a negative attitude towards Carbon Concepts.

It's experimental, make your own.

I sourced what I need for a traditional ski install (sans bungees) at Stoddards. Awesome company, super helpful, fine people.
http://www.stoddardairparts.com

I've also now seen what Carbon Concepts did on his own skis, all the hardware weighs less then a pound. Will probably do something similar.

Also posted this at SuperCub.org and numerous guys have told me they'd make what I needed, or knew other places to get it, or showed me what they did. That is what I've grown to love about aviation, especially backcountry aviation, with very rare exceptions we are a brotherhood willing to help each other out if we can. In fact I can say that Airglas is the first exception to that I've ever run in to. It appears from others posts that they are "less then helpful", even for those that do have their skis.

And yep I'm experimental so can do what I want, and I will. Keep an eye out for posts about my new skis and their install. Got another 2" of snow this morning and the sun is out again!

Why didn't you just buy what you needed from Carbon Concepts?

They don’t sell any rigging


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Ahhh, ok.

Thats unfortunate. I will say (to be a devil’s advocate) that I have had a bunch of dealings with Airglass and have found the crew to be nothing but professional and accommodating. There has to be more to the story... (hoping)

While I completely get the frustration of driving three hours and then not being able to pick up what you thought was available at the end of the drive...

Had your mechanic specified what skies you were using, the issue would have been resolved over the phone. It's an odd situation, but it's really not the fault of Airglas that all the information wasn't forthcoming at the time of communication.

The customer is NOT, and I mean NOT always right. If I were a manufacturer and there was a company that was (for example) threatening law suit if my product was used with their product, I wouldn't sell my product to anyone who owned their product, period. Doesn't matter how many customers I piss off, it's just not worth it in the end. That's not bad business, it's good business. It helps ensure your business survives to the next year.

I understand feeling like you got jerked around a bit, but it's not like they said "Ya, well sell them for CC", then refused when you showed up.

It's quite possible there's a fantastically logical reason they won't sell them for CC skies. I have no knowledge of what that reason might be, but I seriously doubt it's just a personality conflict.

Hammer wrote:While I completely get the frustration of driving three hours and then not being able to pick up what you thought was available at the end of the drive...

Had your mechanic specified what skies you were using, the issue would have been resolved over the phone. It's an odd situation, but it's really not the fault of Airglas that all the information wasn't forthcoming at the time of communication.

The customer is NOT, and I mean NOT always right. If I were a manufacturer and there was a company that was (for example) threatening law suit if my product was used with their product, I wouldn't sell my product to anyone who owned their product, period. Doesn't matter how many customers I piss off, it's just not worth it in the end. That's not bad business, it's good business. It helps ensure your business survives to the next year.

I understand feeling like you got jerked around a bit, but it's not like they said "Ya, well sell them for CC", then refused when you showed up.

It's quite possible there's a fantastically logical reason they won't sell them for CC skies. I have no knowledge of what that reason might be, but I seriously doubt it's just a personality conflict.

Horse hockey! That is total BS. They were informed the skis were exp. How many companies are making experimental skis? Not many. And, if they have a bug up their butt about carbon concepts, why didn’t THEY ask specifically what skis?

I knew Wes Landes and his son Gary for many years and both those guys were salt of the earth. They took care of customers.

We’d and Gary have both gone west some time ago.

FYI, Landes’ primary money makers are composite parts for military helicopters. Ever see a CH 60 or CH 47 with “tundra pads”? Those are made by Landes. And that’s where their $ comes from.

I’m betting the new management cares a lot more about their military customers than their civilian ones. Too bad.

MTV

The aircraft is experimental? Phil got it right. AG needs to publish a terms of sale link or/and email before denying a potential customer. Opinion only.

I have dealt with AIRGLAS for years and never had any Issues with them. Seems there is more to this story that needs to be cleared up before making "screw them" comments. Yes that was directed at you 8GCBC. Do you have first hand dealings with this company? Or are you just on the throw them under the bus bandwagon? There is lots of gray area to this story that needs to be cleared up. I certainly would like to hear from AIRGLAS directly to understand why things went down as they did. I am still baffled by this. Top notch company in my book. I love my GLH3000SG's.

Maybe they just don't like Texalaskans?


That last comment was a joke to all you thin skinned take everything personally types.

I ordered some parts from them, and the spacers they sent to go infront of the landing gear to push the fitting away was too big. He told me well you must not know how it goes on, we only have one spacer, and i just put my pa-12 on skis and they fit just fine. He told me Just stack up some washers. I told them i wanted to order the right spacers as this is a fresh rebuild. I asked if they were going to refund me and they said no. I wouldn't mind, but there STC drawing showed a smaller diameter spacer, thats when he said they only make one spacer. Oh well, guess ill make my own. I wouldn't mind but they soaked me $20 bucks per spacer.

Tom

mtv wrote:

Hammer wrote:While I completely get the frustration of driving three hours and then not being able to pick up what you thought was available at the end of the drive...

Had your mechanic specified what skies you were using, the issue would have been resolved over the phone. It's an odd situation, but it's really not the fault of Airglas that all the information wasn't forthcoming at the time of communication.

The customer is NOT, and I mean NOT always right. If I were a manufacturer and there was a company that was (for example) threatening law suit if my product was used with their product, I wouldn't sell my product to anyone who owned their product, period. Doesn't matter how many customers I piss off, it's just not worth it in the end. That's not bad business, it's good business. It helps ensure your business survives to the next year.

I understand feeling like you got jerked around a bit, but it's not like they said "Ya, well sell them for CC", then refused when you showed up.

It's quite possible there's a fantastically logical reason they won't sell them for CC skies. I have no knowledge of what that reason might be, but I seriously doubt it's just a personality conflict.

... if they have a bug up their butt about carbon concepts, why didn’t THEY ask specifically what skis?...

MTV

That part I agree with. The rest is purely your opinion and speculation.

akgreg wrote:I have dealt with AIRGLAS for years and never had any Issues with them. Seems there is more to this story that needs to be cleared up before making "screw them" comments. Yes that was directed at you 8GCBC. Do you have first hand dealings with this company? Or are you just on the throw them under the bus bandwagon? There is lots of gray area to this story that needs to be cleared up. I certainly would like to hear from AIRGLAS directly to understand why things went down as they did. I am still baffled by this. Top notch company in my book. I love my GLH3000SG's.

Maybe they just don't like Texalaskans?


That last comment was a joke to all you thin skinned take everything personally types.

My advice was to Phil not you or anyone else. Simple. Don't take it out of context. Glad you like what you got. I changed my offending post! Sorry about that.

Phil, you might have just needed a bigger sob story than the three-hour drive. One time when my friend totaled my 180, they took back a complete, newly-purchased hydraulic ski setup for a full refund, no questions asked.
Glad to hear the bush network got you fixed up instead. I bet once you're laying tracks on virgin powder, you'll be having too much fun to spare it another thought.
Cheers,
-DP

Thanks DP, we are installing and rigging them tonight. Very excited.

mtv wrote:Horse hockey!

MTV

Horse hockey? Now that would be cool! LOL

Reading thread further...

Lesson learned for me, "Be MORE descriptive and send a drawing/pictures/etc. first via email to AirGlas!!!!" Phil got caught somewhere in the middle of a misunderstanding. No metal was bent, not too big a deal in retrospect. Opinion.

Does anyone remember their first time? 'Twas magical and surreal...My first time: