hardtailjohn wrote: I spent a few years on one in WA. For the most part, it was great. MOST of the others there were fun....

John, I'm curious which airpark that might've been.

I don't live on an airpark but know lots of people who do.
It seems like most airparks at some point have issues with "cliques",
feuds, asshole pilot residents, and/or asshole non-pilot residents.
Plus nearby noise-sensitive residents.
I'm based at a public airport, I spend a lot of time there but it's nice sometimes to be able to just go home & leave it behind.
If I lived there, I wouldn't have that option.
FWIW I live out in the woods with plenty of elbow room between me & my neighbors,
so I can be as chummy (or not) as I want.

The biggest plus for an airpark is that you own the dirt under your hangar. For the life of me I cannot make the math work on a hangar built on county owned dirt. You can't get a loan to buy one and the clock is ticking once it is built.

Leases in my area typically run 30 years, then you hand the keys over to the county. Sure, they typically offer an extension but there is no guarantee. I know for a fact that some of the bigger hangars at my home airport were built/owned by private parties which now belong to the county.

Many people adopt the opinion that they'll be done flying in 30 years, but you're looking at a hockey stick depreciation as the date approaches. With two years left, if the county is salivating for your hangar what are you going to sell? There's nothing to leave for your heirs and whoever buys it is only getting a temporary place to park.

I rent my county owned hangar. Down at the other end of the runway are condo hangars. Those tenants pay an HOA fee, lease the ground and pay the property taxes. Their monthly burn rate is not significantly different from my rent.

My uncle has been attempting to a hangar built in the eastern part of state. What a pain in the ass it has been. Even if you buy a prefab R&M building you still have to find a company to dig, pour, build. You would think city planning and permits would be a rubber stamp on such well tested prefab designs but it isn't. Fire codes are a moving target, the airport manager can be disagreeable, and the builder acts like this is completely different than the identical structure he just finished.

Paying top dollar for an existing hangar would be way smarter and certainly less frustrating.

I have a friend down near Amarillo who is part of an air park. All amazing people, all get along great. It's like an airshow every day. They all own hangars but almost none of them live there (a couple have small apartments in the back).

I would love to live on a runway with my plane but the houses that aren't in the millions of dollars are all designed by a dude with no taste what so ever. Nice hangar, and a home approximating a single wide trailer. There's no way my other half would move into one of those.

We have been looking high and low. Where did you guys find these properties listed - Barnstormers? Zillow?

Some good reading here, things I haven’t thought of. My conclusion Whee has the best idea so far.

Or, you can do what I have done, bought a piece of property that was big enough to put my own strip on. Me and my son literally used a chain saw and brush clippers to clear the wooded area. Used a skidsteer to get all the stumps out then hired a guy with a D-6 to smooth the area out. Planted various grasses with a hand seeder.....rolled the area with my homemade roller behind my ATV. Walla....my own private strip and nobody to F*** with me. I'm a bit of a loner type, so it suits me well. Plus, I can hunt, shoot, fart into the wind, whatever I want without neighbor intervention. Life is good....except for the damned tax appraiser. LOL

Honestly, though, I have been looking for a winter place that I can keep an airplane at for flying. Looking in the SW, but most places I have looked at are either above my meager budget, or have the problems listed above. When you visit and talk to a few of the tenants and start hearing complaints from the get-go, I'm thinking it's not a place for me.

Getting older and not wanting to deal with the snow and cold so I need to find something before my flying days are over.

I just got a letter from my local county P&Z, (right up there with getting an unexpected letter from the IRS or FAA for a cheap thrill) as a nearby property owner, seems that there will be some re-zoning going on below my 40 acres. From ag, to rural residential, meaning 5 acre lots, on 72 acres. Oh joy.....but it's a ways from my place, with another 40 acre chunk of grazing ground between us. No use worrying about it, and I'm sure as hell not going to the meeting about it, it's inevitable.

Another 40 acres nearer mine just changed hands this year, from it's decades long original rancher owners, to a "new guy", who I have yet to meet, though his access road is an easement through my property. Word is he and his wife, older folk, just wanted a place to hole up and raise a few cattle, anti development in other words. His hoped for seclusion will be somewhat impacted by this new re-zoning, just a few months after his purchase. The flip side is, if what I heard is correct as to the price he paid for his 40, my ground has tripled in value, at a minimum, since I bought it 13 years ago. But I'd have to move to get my hands on all that money....but it does help knowing I have a bail out if it impacts my strip, so far so good, I'm not too worried.

aftCG wrote:....I rent my county owned hangar. Down at the other end of the runway are condo hangars. Those tenants pay an HOA fee, lease the ground and pay the property taxes. Their monthly burn rate is not significantly different from my rent.....

I think you're down at the Narrows, eh?
I'm up at Jefferson County.
I own & rent out a condo t-hangar for $325 a month.
My ownership cost (not counting the initial investment) is about $100 a month.
If I figure in what that initial investment could be earning,
I think it's probably a push between the cost of renting & owning,
with a slight advantage to owning.
The reason I can rent out my t-hangar is that I bought a 50x50 box hangar earlier this year.
It wasn't cheap, but I still think buying & paying the ownership costs is somewhat less than it would be to rent one.
But it's kinda like airplanes....sometimes what you want isn't available to rent, so you have to buy.
FWIW the ground lease on the hangar pads was for 50 years, we're about halfway through that now.

StillLearning wrote:Looking at an airpark property, tell me the good, the bad, and the ugly?

Something to think about is whether the HOA allow "commercial" use of the propery and runway. Also, whether the HOA carries insurance on the runway and for HOA operations (like rwy maint and maint of common areas). Some cash reserves are really nice so if there's a big expence - like fixing deteriorated pavement - it isn't a budget busting flash point.

WWhunter wrote:Or, you can do what I have done, bought a piece of property that was big enough to put my own strip on. Me and my son literally used a chain saw and brush clippers to clear the wooded area. Used a skidsteer to get all the stumps out then hired a guy with a D-6 to smooth the area out. Planted various grasses with a hand seeder.....rolled the area with my homemade roller behind my ATV. Walla....my own private strip and nobody to F*** with me. I'm a bit of a loner type, so it suits me well. Plus, I can hunt, shoot, fart into the wind, whatever I want without neighbor intervention. Life is good....except for the damned tax appraiser. LOL

Honestly, though, I have been looking for a winter place that I can keep an airplane at for flying. Looking in the SW, but most places I have looked at are either above my meager budget, or have the problems listed above. When you visit and talk to a few of the tenants and start hearing complaints from the get-go, I'm thinking it's not a place for me.

Getting older and not wanting to deal with the snow and cold so I need to find something before my flying days are over.

I have more or less the same set up as you on my farm. Hanger and runway a couple hundred feet from my house and have the desire to go south with the geese to soak up some heat. These old bones don’t enjoy the cold like they use to. Just have to figure out how to do it.

A buddy of mine lives in the airpark at Independence Oregon.
He thinks it's an ideal situation--
the resident live adjacent to the state owned and operated airport,
and pay a very reasonable fee for thru-the-fence access.
So no liability or financial responsibility for the runway.
I imagine there's some sort of HOA or covenants,
but he's never mentioned that they're a PITA.

We lucked into an existing house and hangar on a 3200' grass strip airpark about 3 years ago. I would do it again in a heartbeat.

The airpark is smaller with 16 or so 1-5 acres lots so we have a nice amount of space between us. Typical loosely enforced HOA rules, and some people like to complain, but overall we haven't had any issues. Its awesome that when family or visitors stop in you can just pull the plane out and take them for a quick flight. Plane is easier to maintain as you can walk out and work on it whenever you have time. For me, the best part is landing after a long trip with the family and the girls can just go inside without unloading the plane, reloading the car and driving home.

We looked at land prior to this house coming up and by time you buy 20 acres in this area and build a hangar, it was at the cost of this place. HOA dues of 85/month cover the grass mowing on the runway which is nice. I can't imagine how much flying time I would spend riding a tractor if I had to maintain the runway myself.

C180_guy wrote:We have been looking high and low. Where did you guys find these properties listed - Barnstormers? Zillow?

As far as where to look for a place; I looked this airpark up on airnav, called the guy listed as a contact and asked if anyone was interested in selling. He said yep, a widowed lady is looking to list her place soon. We met her, worked out a deal and never dealt with a realtor. At 35, we are the youngsters here with most people 50-60 years old.

hotrod180 wrote:John, I'm curious which airpark that might've been.

I was on Meadowmist for about 7 years. All but 2 neighbors were awesome!!!! Both flying and non-flying.
Now I'm pretty much in the middle of our 600 acres. Like WW says... nobody to mess with me!

John

courierguy wrote:I just got a letter from my local county P&Z, (right up there with getting an unexpected letter from the IRS or FAA for a cheap thrill) as a nearby property owner, seems that there will be some re-zoning going on below my 40 acres. From ag, to rural residential, meaning 5 acre lots, on 72 acres. Oh joy.....but it's a ways from my place, with another 40 acre chunk of grazing ground between us. No use worrying about it, and I'm sure as hell not going to the meeting about it, it's inevitable.

When I went to put in my runway here, they advised me to get an "avigation easment". It basically sets up a "cone" on each end of your runway that they wont build in. Mine was easy, I owned the land. If you could get that neighbor that doesn't want to see a bunch of development in their place to cooperate...... might be worth a look at any rate?
John

hardtailjohn wrote:

courierguy wrote:I just got a letter from my local county P&Z, (right up there with getting an unexpected letter from the IRS or FAA for a cheap thrill) as a nearby property owner, seems that there will be some re-zoning going on below my 40 acres. From ag, to rural residential, meaning 5 acre lots, on 72 acres. Oh joy.....but it's a ways from my place, with another 40 acre chunk of grazing ground between us. No use worrying about it, and I'm sure as hell not going to the meeting about it, it's inevitable.

When I went to put in my runway here, they advised me to get an "avigation easment". It basically sets up a "cone" on each end of your runway that they wont build in. Mine was easy, I owned the land. If you could get that neighbor that doesn't want to see a bunch of development in their place to cooperate...... might be worth a look at any rate?
John

I kind of panicked, upon closer inspection of the county document, turns out the property is well off to the side of me, plus down a ways and also behind a hill. I won't even have line of sight.

It occurred to me a while back, and though I have yet to do so, in any conversation with a "new guy" neighbor, to vaguely mention (threaten in effect ) that if I was ever forced to move due to my flying activities being impinged upon, I'd first subdivide the hell out of my 40 acres. "So, which would you rather have, a very quiet plane flying by once in a while (so quiet you won't hear inside your house) or 8 new houses (5 acre lots on 40 acres, I could do it, or nearly so), all with barking dogs and kids with dirt bikes and ATV's?"

[

IdahoWilly wrote:Just moved in to a new house we built on one. Lucked out last year and got the lot we wanted which is basically the only reason we did it (only one neighbor to the side, in the town where we live/work/kids' schools, etc.). Getting to the airport when I had the time to fly always seemed to be my problem with getting more hours in, so I am looking forward to having the plane in the garage and ready to go at a moments notice. For the most part our neighbors have been pretty good, however like previously mentioned it is a subdivision full of pilots, so we do have a few that think it is their own personal airport. The CCR's are fairly normal, but are haphazardly enforced which makes me wonder why they bother at all. HOA dues are comparable to golf course residential developments and even less than most I've seen. Around here (SW ID) their location and lot pricing is what drives most people away I think, that and it just gets really expensive building a house or finding one that is finished the way you'd like, of course pricing in our area is on a rocket ride now anyhow. I agree with Stilllearning that you do find mostly older people living there, which seems to be aviation in general these days. The other thing that makes me wonder if it was such a great idea is watching some of the folks taking lessons, or making solo approaches to land here and wondering how long it will be before someone hits your house at 7 in the morning! Buying your own piece of ground and having a strip is something I've always wanted to do, but after owning property and the associated maintenance that goes with it, price of land in general these days, having neighbors that moved to the country for quiet and don't appreciate aircraft taking off in the early mornings, and the fact that we have a nice paved or HOA maintained grass strip and common areas makes it pretty hard to beat for us. Overall we are happy and looking forward to living there the rest of our lives. Sometimes you just have to bite the bullet and do it, so good luck in your search, I don't think you will regret it.

I just went and checked out this airpark yesterday and was very impressed. some nice houses. Might be a little to far out for my business, kid school, etc.

courierguy wrote:I just got a letter from my local county P&Z, (right up there with getting an unexpected letter from the IRS or FAA for a cheap thrill) as a nearby property owner, seems that there will be some re-zoning going on below my 40 acres. From ag, to rural residential, meaning 5 acre lots, on 72 acres. Oh joy.....but it's a ways from my place, with another 40 acre chunk of grazing ground between us. No use worrying about it, and I'm sure as hell not going to the meeting about it, it's inevitable.

Another 40 acres nearer mine just changed hands this year, from it's decades long original rancher owners, to a "new guy", who I have yet to meet, though his access road is an easement through my property. Word is he and his wife, older folk, just wanted a place to hole up and raise a few cattle, anti development in other words. His hoped for seclusion will be somewhat impacted by this new re-zoning, just a few months after his purchase. The flip side is, if what I heard is correct as to the price he paid for his 40, my ground has tripled in value, at a minimum, since I bought it 13 years ago. But I'd have to move to get my hands on all that money....but it does help knowing I have a bail out if it impacts my strip, so far so good, I'm not too worried.

I know where that is.....grew up in Poky. spent lots of time in those mtns hunting and skiing

I looked really closely at the Air Park at Alpine, Jackson Hole WY, love the hangar house designs there. Got excited right away - felt like it was for me....

But then realized, you're still 50 minute drive from the cowboy bar. So how does that work logistically as a second home? The regular airport is 16 minutes.. If you aren't skiing or enjoying the town, what are you doing there??

I don't want to give up on air parks altogether but I have found that if its a second home, you have to really evaluate how you are going to spend your time there and think about a day in the life.


I think if I were to move to one now it would be for primary residence for sure.

nickelb wrote:I looked really closely at the Air Park at Alpine, Jackson Hole WY, love the hangar house designs there. Got excited right away - felt like it was for me....

But then realized, you're still 50 minute drive from the cowboy bar. So how does that work logistically as a second home? The regular airport is 16 minutes.. If you aren't skiing or enjoying the town, what are you doing there??

I don't want to give up on air parks altogether but I have found that if its a second home, you have to really evaluate how you are going to spend your time there and think about a day in the life.


I think if I were to move to one now it would be for primary residence for sure.

Agreed this is a beautiful airpark with amazing homes, but it would not be easy living in Alpine, Wyoming full time.

nickelb wrote:I looked really closely at the Air Park at Alpine, Jackson Hole WY, love the hangar house designs there. Got excited right away - felt like it was for me....

But then realized, you're still 50 minute drive from the cowboy bar. So how does that work logistically as a second home? The regular airport is 16 minutes.. If you aren't skiing or enjoying the town, what are you doing there??

I don't want to give up on air parks altogether but I have found that if its a second home, you have to really evaluate how you are going to spend your time there and think about a day in the life.


I think if I were to move to one now it would be for primary residence for sure.

You have to readjust your thinking, the Bull Moose is about a 1/4 mile from the Alpine strip! Got the lake to play around in also.