While in Wyoming recently, I stopped by the Backcountry Cub plant in Douglas. I had heard a rumor that they were working on a LSA bushplane, and I had wrangled if not an invite, at least permission, to land at the factory grass strip and see how it was going. http://www.supercub.com Check out their history/who they are page, for a quick heads up as to what they do and how they do it, pretty impressive.

I had no idea how far along they were, it could have just been sketches on a cocktail napkin for all I knew, so I was surprised to see what looked like a complete fuselage, on the gear. Tandem seating, and a huge amount of room, especially headroom. Possibly in an effort to lock up the NBA players market, a 7'er will fit! BIG door (single, dual optional), bigger then the S-7, as big as they come, up folding to the bottom of the wing. Fitting in a folding mountain bike will be real easy. Both seats have lots of travel, again in an effort to have a design that fits all sizes. The back seat is quickly removable, with no hardware in the way once removed, leaving an area long and wide enough to sleep in, and that will be part of the plan. As one who had a plane I could sleep in (my first S-7) I can tell you it can be very practical, no need to carry a tent obviously, plus you always know how the plane is doing during the night, being inside it, pretty fun to feel it rocking also, like sleeping in a boat.

The fuselage floor is a big long carbon/honeycomb tub, with 6 or 8" sides, from the rear of the baggage area to the firewall, with a central tunnel that hides all the control linkages. The rear brakes/rudder pedals come out after pulling 2 pins, leaving nothing in the way. The tunnel top comes off for access to the linkage of course. 4130 fuselage, fabric covered. Much attention was paid to the viz, both in flight and most important while landing, over the nose up front especially. The tandem seating helps of course, but the cowl (yet to be built, that was next) engine combo is positioned low enough and the seats high so that at least you will be able to see what you’re hitting.

The wing, the wing is the thing... carbon/honeycomb spars, ribs, and covering! For better or for worse, meaning strong and light, but likely expensive. The rear spar is the same height I believe as the main, allowable due to the unique airfoil, usually not the case I was told. Almost perfectly symmetrical, and very low drag in cruise as a result, especially considering the high lift at low speeds. MANUALLY deployed slats, with beautifully CNC machined eye candy brackets and linkage. They have reason to believe that manual deployment is the way to go on this airfoil/airframe combo, something about better control.

They have a lot of experience with slats, and these I’m told will be unusually effective, combined with the flaps and the drooping ailerons. On top of everything else, the design is planned to do it’s thing at “normal”, or very nearly so, AOA’s, no extreme nose high, and viz blocking approach’s, thus nothing needed gear wise besides the Grove leaf spring gear (clean, for the high speeds) or for the hard asses, a cub style heavy duty bungee gear.I don’t want to get it wrong ( I’m not sure of the exact aero-descriptive term, let’s call it “busy”) but lets just say there is a lot going on at that trailing edge, all I saw was a single carbon rib with the various parts laid out on a table, (no complete built up wing yet). But when all LE and TE edge stuff was deployed it screamed “high lift”. 36 gallons fuel in the wings, total. Plenty, an excessive amount even, for a Rotax 912, unless you’re flying around the West or you’re on fire.. It has been tweaked by a well known Rotax guru, is turbo’d, and puts out about 140 HP, not bad in a 740 lb. plane (hoped for).

Now for the punchline: extensive computer modeling, whatever that is, is pointing towards a stall of 12 mph and a top end of 145. Yeah, that’s what I said too, but let’s wait and see, this thing will be light enough, and with a big enough wing (bigger chord then a super cub) and a nice narrow 30' span (great for tight quarters) it could happen. The quality of everything I saw was absolutely frigging incredible. And, though this was the prototype, the gearing up for production tooling is well underway, a huge advantage of the production method allowed by computer modeling and CNC machining. So good, and with all that carbon fiber, probably out of my price range, at least if I want to continue to mostly not work much and fly a lot. I have no idea if they plan to kit it or just sell ready to fly. I do know they plan to keep a low profile on it just yet, so don’t expect anything on their site yet or any info if you call, it is in the works, and they don’t seem to be interested in blabbing it up before the prototype flies (commendable). I took no pictures, at their request, and got grudging permission (I think, pretty sure anyway) to post about it on a little backcountry flying forum I’m a member of. Let’s give them some breathing room and see what happens, I want one BAD, maybe I’ll start buying lottery tickets or something.

I notice their slats advertisement says "makes your airplane controllable to 20MPH" If your ASI can even read that low... (if it can, it's not accurate)

Got any photos of this beast under construction?
That honeycomb spar sounds pricey, I hope they have the bankroll to finish development!

Exciting stuff! Did you happen to see the four place SQ while you were there? Holding my breath for that machine, and starting to turn blue, lol! Thanks for the report.

Several interesting designs in the Idaho and Montana area were under development, does anyone know what happened to these, or who designed and/or built them:

There was an LSA tandem STOL design in development called the Outlaw.

There was an LSA tandem STOL design in development called the Guardian Aircraft Raven (the Prototype), but they were already redesigning it and going to call it the Hillcat ... youtube video showed it flying out of Homedale Airport in Idaho (same airport as Kitfox factory).

The aircraft from the OP seems to be an LSA version of Wayne Mackey's SQ2.

There were rumors Joel Milloway was designing (maybe for someone else) a better tandem STOL based on his experiences building Rans S-7S ... is this a fourth design or one of the aircraft above?

Four place SQ2? Aviatt Huskey has a four place design that got shelved due to the economy, and there's supposed to be a four place Carbon Cub designed but not yet built - again due to the economy.

Courierguy- you really cover the country. Very cool story. I'm glad some things are still moving forward in this wretched economy.

Will be fun to see what happens! I had heard from a birdy on this site that Bruce and crew were working on something like this. Joel also has some ideas that may come to pass. Lots of cool stuff happening!

I didn't notice a 4 place but I wasn't looking.

I hear rumors all the time about new designs coming out in this area of Idaho, over the years I've always made it a practice to try and stay ahead of whatever's coming down the pike, it's all good.!

Courier Guy is right--lots of exciting things happening in Douglas. They've been pretty tight-lipped about it because they don't want to make a bunch of promises until they have the hard data to back it up. I have sat in the cockpit, though, and agree with everything CG said. This new light sport design truly has the potential to be a game-changer. All the benefits (and more) of the original Mackey slat design, without the nose-high AOA previously necessary to maximize the effectiveness of the slat.

I ain't no injuneer, but they've always known the ideal place for the slat is midway down the leading edge. The Mackey design was thus a knowing compromise--yielding the best low-speed results, while minimizing, as much as possible, the drag produced by a fixed attachment on the wing. The downside was the high AOA to really make them work well, based on the compromise position. With the manually retractable design, you get the best of both worlds. Slat is placed in optimum position (eliminating the need for high AOA), but when fully retracted it creates virtually no drag. Couple that with the ultra-light and ultra-strong wing and a few other really neat design features, and you have the potential for an airplane that can fly under 20, cruise well over 100 mph faster than its stall speed, and take the kind of abuse we all like to inflict on an airplane. Not to mention enough flat floor space for me to lay down and stretch out, and I'm 6'2". Stay tuned.

Last I heard there are two SQ4s that are almost ready to fly, if not already flying, with more currently being assembled. They're going to be really cool.

I can't personally confirm the sub-20 airspeed claims in the SQ-2 (although I've heard that from Mackey personally, and he's never given me any reason to doubt what he says). Here's a little SQ-2 eye-candy, for what it's worth.




Based on my own experience, I can attest to how incredible it is to still be comfortably making full control inputs at 30 mph in a slatted SQ-2. By full, I mean all the way to the stops. By 30, I mean an honest 30 mph.

I don't have any stake in Backcountry, but I know those guys well and think they make a spectacular product. I have 500 or so Rans S-7 hours, and I love that design. However, I've never experienced anything like flying the slatted SQ-2. This new light sport is shaping up to be even better--like a slatted S-7 on steroids.

My two cents. Your mileage may vary.

RanchPilot wrote:Courier Guy is right--lots of exciting things happening in Douglas.

Darrin - I've spent time in Douglas. This is the one exception to my experience - there ain't ever much exciting happening in Douglas! Except maybe Jackelope days.

emflys wrote:

RanchPilot wrote:Courier Guy is right--lots of exciting things happening in Douglas.

Darrin - I've spent time in Douglas. This is the one exception to my experience - there ain't ever much exciting happening in Douglas! Except maybe Jackelope days.

Emmett, if you failed to have an exciting time in Douglas, you just didn't have enough beer or bullets!

courierguy wrote:.... I had no idea how far along they were, it could have just been sketches on a cocktail napkin for all I knew, so I was surprised to see what looked like a complete fuselage, on the gear. .....

Wouldn't they let you take any pics?

courierguy wrote: I took no pictures, at their request, and got grudging permission (I think, pretty sure anyway) to post about it

Don't think so, sounds like they're trying to keep thing pretty secretive for now. It sounds like an awesome airplane and I can't wait to see the finished product and what it will do.

hotrod150 wrote:

courierguy wrote:.... I had no idea how far along they were, it could have just been sketches on a cocktail napkin for all I knew, so I was surprised to see what looked like a complete fuselage, on the gear. .....

Wouldn't they let you take any pics?

No, they tackled me and took the memory card out of my camera and wouldn't give it back

Not really! I think I stated something like " You probably don't want me to take any pictures", and they indicated it would probably be a good idea not to. No surprise, try and take pictures inside the ABW tire plant.....or in my shop even. Well maybe if it was cleaned up I wouldn't mind. Like I said, they are hard at work and don't want to be bothered just yet.

Douglas, convinently located in scenic central Wyoming, is a great place to conduct top secret developmental research, of any type. They don't get many people just dropping by I'm guessing, and even though I asked first they may have thought I'd never show. I really appreciated the quick tour, maybe 30 minutes, and then I let them get back to work.

Ranch Pilot: "Like an S-7, slatted, and on steroids".... yeah, that and more, I really liked all the practical aspects of the fuslage, ease of cleanout, like using a hose, is the intent. The wing was a bonus. It's always fun seeing a well run airplane factory, that reminds me, I go to Afton all the time for breakfast, but have never got the Husky plant tour...

I had the chance to chase Randy Goza around in his SQ2 when I was up in AK. We were playing on the strips around Lake George. When Randy chose to land on the "strip", not out in the rough, he would land and depart ACROSS the strip, not down it. I was really impressed with the performance of the SQ2 with Randy flying it. I now believe the "controllable at 30mph" as I watched him yank and bank at very low speeds. The airplane did things that just didn't seem possible, like watching a 3D RC model flying..........

I've had the pleasure of riding behind Goza in an SQ-2. He's the best stick I've ever met, and makes the rest of us look like mere mortals anyway, but it's downright amazing what he can do with the SQ-2.

I can only imagine what kind of ninja magic he'll be able to work in this new light sport design if it does anything close to what the fancy computer models say it will.

Old thread I know but have there been any updates to this? If you Google outlaw LSA you can find a standalone page on it, however I cannot seem to get to it from their sites home.

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Courierguy wrote:
While in Wyoming recently, I stopped by the Backcountry Cub plant in Douglas. I had heard a rumor that they were working on a LSA bushplane ...

Now for the punchline: extensive computer modeling, whatever that is, is pointing towards a stall of 12 mph and a top end of 145

Just wondering ...

Can the words "LSA" and "top end of 145" be mentioned in the same breath ?
Or is this one of those 180 HP for a few minutes CarbonCub engine deals where it is sort of ok...wink wink..

I believe LSA limits to 120 knots (138 mph) top speed in level flight.

I wish them luck getting the thing out the door at less than 900 pounds. If they do, they'll have a winner.

But, even with the Rotax, what is described sounds heavy.

MTV

The project was put on hold I understand, and yeah it looked like it was going to be heavy. It gave me a good excuse to fly to Douglas anyway, twice. I really liked that fuselage, the doors were S-7ish, big and long. Too bad it didn't happen but I think they pulled the plug at the right time.